Okay.
Evidence of meeting #151 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was project.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #151 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was project.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Principal, Poulton Environmental Strategies Inc.
The one that I am most familiar with is Port Metro Vancouver, which has ongoing operations. They know they are going to be disturbing fish habitat on an occasional or ongoing basis, and as a result they have an ongoing need for offset credits.
It is generally development groups, because they are the ones that will ultimately use the credits.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
I was formerly in the transportation industry. Is there a risk, similar to the carbon credits situation, that habitat banking credits could all of a sudden become a commodity that could be traded back and forth between groups and organizations?
4:05 p.m.
Principal, Poulton Environmental Strategies Inc.
That language has, from time to time, been applied to it. It has been described as a commodification of natural values.
With respect, I am less concerned about the semantics of it than the ecological productivity of it. If it is producing environmental gains and making use of people's expertise in an efficient way, I hardly think how it's labelled comes into play.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
The reason I bring it up is that in my riding we have seen international organizations buy up huge swaths of agriculture land, plow it under, and plant trees for carbon credits to be applied overseas. I'm wondering if this could be an issue that could be addressed by Bill C-68, including third party habitat banking, in the language that was used by the Senate.
4:05 p.m.
Principal, Poulton Environmental Strategies Inc.
I think I would have to give that some more thought before responding, but my initial sense is that it could be managed on a case-by-case process, and that it wouldn't necessarily have to be dealt with legislatively or even through regulation.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Doherty.
Now we go to the NDP and to Mr. Johns for seven minutes or less, please.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Thank you.
I'll start with Senator Wells.
Thank you, Senator Wells, for being here and for all the work you are doing in the Senate around this issue.
I have a question regarding first nations. Can you talk about the consultation that's been done with first nations regarding third party habitat banking, and maybe what you've heard from them?
4:05 p.m.
Senator, Newfoundland and Labrador, C
Sure. I'll give a direct example.
It was Senator Dan Christmas of the Membertou First Nation in Nova Scotia. He and I worked together on these amendments. He voted for them. He's with the independent senators group. It was on his initiative that first nations were part of our consideration.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Were the indigenous stakeholders across the country, coast to coast to coast, consulted?
4:05 p.m.
Senator, Newfoundland and Labrador, C
Well, I know they didn't come to committee.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Okay, so there's no testimony from indigenous groups that I can read.
4:05 p.m.
Senator, Newfoundland and Labrador, C
There was no testimony of first nations at committee.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Okay. That concerns me. Ensuring that they're adequately consulted is critical. We've heard concerns from indigenous communities in the past that there have been habitat banks that have been poorly executed in their communities. We would certainly like to hear more from the indigenous communities on this issue.
4:05 p.m.
Senator, Newfoundland and Labrador, C
If this were passed into law, I think that would be part of the development of the regulatory framework by DFO. They would have years to put together the requirements for a consultation. That obviously would include indigenous groups. Some indigenous groups would want to be part of conservation projects in their area.
4:10 p.m.
Senator, Newfoundland and Labrador, C
If they don't support it, no one is forcing it on them. If you're going to support the development of an offset or of assistance in another area as part of an offset system, as part of a third party habitat banking system, you're not going to force wetlands conservation on a group that doesn't want it. I think that's clear. I imagine most groups would want it, but that would be part of the development of the regulations by DFO. DFO would be required to consult.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
4:10 p.m.
Senator, Newfoundland and Labrador, C
The legislation is providing the opportunity for the offset. The details would be in the regulations, and of course parliamentarians don't get into the details of regulations; we just do the legislation.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
We do have concerns. We just want to make sure, on the record, that they weren't adequately consulted prior to this initiative coming here.
4:10 p.m.
Senator, Newfoundland and Labrador, C
They didn't show up at committee to discuss it, but they may have been consulted by others.