Evidence of meeting #49 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was animals.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
It's mostly firearms. For some of it near the gulf, near the Magdalen Islands, they still use what's called a “hakapik”.
9:45 a.m.
As an Individual
I can give you the answer, because it's in the Magdalen Islands that they use that.
The point is that they do their sealing in a different way. They're standing on ice that goes up and down, and not many people can shoot a gun and catch animals like that. They have to go near the animals and use the hakapik.
I took a course in Newfoundland on the use of the hakapik. It was given by veterinarians who specialize in the seal hunt. I can tell you that what they're proposing.... All of the people were attending that course in order to hunt seals using that method.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
That's really the key piece, because as a youngster, I grew up seeing those pictures. It didn't look very nice. Humane is the issue. The same thing extends to farm animals, etc. We dispatch them. We use them, but it's how that's done and whether the animal suffers.
Second, there's been no hunting of whitecoats for how long?
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
In terms of utilization, when first nations and coastal communities harvest the seal, how much of it is used?
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
One hundred per cent is used.
That gets to the final piece. There is quite a difference between a cull and a harvest. A cull is just basically killing it to get rid of it, with no care as to what happens to the animal once it's dead. A harvest does suggest that it's taken for more purposes than just simply getting rid of it. I would suggest that we use those words very carefully going forward.
I was happy to hear the initiative to, you know, attack Europe...especially the lederhosen. I stopped wearing it for different reasons—bad knees.
I also want to challenge my—
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Well, it's that too, and I wanted to challenge Mr. Finnigan. Does he know how his carrot was dispatched?
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Unlike my colleagues across the way, I did support Bill C-246, but for reasons that weren't related to the issues that you're here on. That was probably one of the problems with that bill. It reached a little too far and was a little too imprecise. Nonetheless, I think we have to support this and we have to get behind you.
Thank you.
9:50 a.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Fin Donnelly
Thank you, Mr. Hardie.
We're into our second round. I'll turn it over to Mr. Doherty.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
I just want to say thank you to our guests today. I really enjoyed the testimony.
Obviously, as our colleague Mr. Sopuck mentioned, we are supporting this. I've already spoken on it as well. I support it wholeheartedly. We're a hunting and fishing family, always have been. We're first nations as well. Our freezer is filled with what we call “jumper”—a lot of deer, moose, and salmon. I'm not back there enough to actually get it, but I'm still trying to find a good source out here.
There are things that I wanted to bring up because there are concerns on this side with respect to our Liberal friends. Ms. Jones, you spoke very elegantly and passionately about the third party, the animal welfare groups that are there. We're seeing them increasingly have an impact on some of the decisions being made. Let's make no bones about it; they're the same groups. Regardless of the name, they're the same groups that are standing beside our government officials when we're making announcements about MPAs and how that impacts our coastal communities.
Both of you, and Mr. Simms, and the senator, would know how that impacts the livelihoods of our coastal communities, our first nations communities. There are decisions that have been made in Nunavut, recently, regarding, perhaps, the limiting of economic opportunities in Nunavut. We have a parliamentary secretary now who voted in favour of Bill C-246, and I'm hoping that our Liberal colleagues who are here testifying had the conversation regarding the importance of this. Mr. Sopuck has mentioned the Liberal welfare caucus.
I want to know where your voice is when these groups are not just talking about the seal cull or stopping or banning seal products. Is your voice still as strong when they're talking about the MPAs, when they're putting forth the same groups that are influencing some of our government decisions?
Ms. Jones.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Yvonne Jones Liberal Labrador, NL
I think a lot of these organizations do have a valuable role in our society. I don't undermine that. However, their role when it comes to promoting animal welfare has been done detrimentally to cultural and historical practices, as well as to economic viability of some communities and people who depend upon those harvests as an industry. The seal is one example of that. That's why I have been very critical of them from that perspective. That's why I see them as a group that's about the anti-use of animals more so than the welfare of animals. That's my experience with the seal industry. I can't say it if I don't believe it, because I do believe it.
PETA, for example, was one of the groups that had been probably a little less pushy, I will say, and negative towards the seal industry until recently.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Can I cut you off there because my time is limited. I really appreciate your comments.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Yvonne Jones Liberal Labrador, NL
I just wanted to say, their opposition came with this bill we've seen in Parliament.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
9:50 a.m.
Independent
Hunter Tootoo Independent Nunavut, NU
Thank you for the question.
You know that old saying, “ignorance is bliss”. In this case, with these groups, it's not. Mr. Sopuck said they're not nice people; they're not funny. They're not. One thing they are, though, is ignorant. One thing that I always detest is people taking advantage of other people's ignorance, and that's what these organizations are doing in putting false, fraudulent information out there to get money from them, to take advantage of them, to take money. To me, that's fraud.
If you look at the Europeans, you see that they killed off everything over there in Europe. Now, they'll say, “Well, we have to save something so we'll come over here where there's still something to save”, without realizing the impact of it. It's the same with the Americans, with the whalers. They're the ones who came up and they were big on whaling, and they left garbage behind. They just took the oil; they left the bones. In 1999, if you remember, there were some whalebone marionettes that were sent to the States to get looked at by a professional puppeteer. They were confiscated at the border. Stuff that they would leave behind as garbage wouldn't even be let back into this country. I think it's important.
It's bills like this and folks like us that educate people to the reality of it, and not the myth that's being portrayed out there.
9:55 a.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Fin Donnelly
We're out of time. We'll have to move on. Perhaps another witnesses will allow you—
9:55 a.m.
As an Individual
It's just a word. The Universal Declaration on the Ethical Harvest of Seals was signed by all the provinces where it's taking place. It's being implemented by the provinces, so they are making sure that it's being done in an ethical way. It was prepared by scientists and by a philosopher. I am just saying that this is available and you can find it. This is the basis on which it's being conducted in the provinces doing that activity.