Evidence of meeting #54 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mpa.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Philippe Morel  Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Annette Daley  Director, Oceans Management, Maritimes Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Jeff MacDonald  Director General, Oceans and Fisheries Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Robert Elliott  Director General, Economic Analysis and Statistics, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

10 a.m.

Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you.

Mr. Doherty, you have five minutes, please.

10 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development recently tabled their study, “Taking Action Today: Establishing Protected Areas for Canada's Future”. The report recently made recommendations on MPAs and included this:

The Committee recommends that the Government of Canada ensure that no federal policy or legislation, such as the Mineral and Energy Resource Assessment and the Canada Petroleum Resources Act, slows the process of establishing protected areas. Further, no federal policy or legislation should impinge on minimum standards of protection established for that type of federal protected area....

My question is twofold, Mr. Morel. If this recommendation were implemented, how would this be written into legislation, and what would this mean for existing oil and gas rights?

10 a.m.

Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Philippe Morel

It's a good question. I'm not sure this necessarily needs to be legislated. I think it could be in the policy. I don't know exactly in detail how this recommendation from the environment committee can affect us. I think the intent of the recommendation is to make sure that we don't use other legislation to slow the process of achieving marine conservation targets as we are right now. The way we manage that now is more through collaborative work with industry and other departments to align, for example, Lancaster Sound with NRCan and with Shell on the existing oil and gas licences that were there and were given back by the company after negotiations.

10 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

If such a recommendation were made, would you agree that the way it is written could impinge on existing oil and gas rights?

10 a.m.

Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Philippe Morel

It all depends on how it's written and how it's implemented. So, of course, just reading the wording of it, yes, but I don't think the intent is necessarily to target one industry more than another, but to make sure that when we have conservation targets, all the tools that are adopted by the government are respected and are not stopped by other legislation. I think that's the main objective.

April 4th, 2017 / 10:05 a.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

I understand that the oceans plan MPAs deal with only marine MPAs, not freshwater inland MPAs. Is that correct? You're not able to discuss inland fisheries and what the impact might be there.

I just wanted to be clear on that one. We'll have to go down another avenue for information on that.

What are the priority designations for fisheries that might be allowed within an MPA? For example, in British Columbia we have regimes for fish and wildlife management that recognize conservation as a first priority; first nations food, social, and ceremonial as a second priority; B.C. resident as a third priority; and then commercial or non-resident. Now we also have the first nations cultural, which is somewhat of a commercial fishery that's fitting in there at certain different levels.

With the fisheries part of it, there could be recreational fisheries, first nations fisheries, also catch-and-release fisheries that would have very low or negligible impact. What are the priorities? How are they set and recognized within the MPA process?

10:05 a.m.

Director General, Oceans and Fisheries Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Jeff MacDonald

First of all, conservation is the number one priority. That informs how we proceed with our consultations. In areas where there is aboriginal fishing, either food, social, ceremonial, or commercial, we obviously need to consult with them in terms of infringing on their rights, but the justification would be that this is for conservation purposes. Where we have consulted properly, we can use conservation as a reason for restricting all fishing activities.

Once the conservation objectives have been fulfilled, we would proceed in the same policy framework we currently have insofar as the order of priority as it relates to aboriginal rights is concerned, and then of course, non-aboriginal access to a public resource. That's the methodology we use.

For example, if a recreational fishery activity is compatible with the conservation objective, then it can be permitted. But if it isn't, then it isn't. That's how we do it. We use conservation first, because it is within our authority to restrict all activities for conservation purposes. But we do have the honour of the crown and the due diligence that we must follow when it comes to infringing on aboriginal rights.

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you.

Mr. Donnelly, for five minutes, please.

10:05 a.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just wanted to go back to enforcement and ask Mr. Morel how often DFO finds illegal fishing activities within MPA no-take areas.

10:05 a.m.

Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Philippe Morel

I don't have that information right now, but I can provide it to you afterwards.

10:05 a.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Have there been instances?

10:05 a.m.

Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Philippe Morel

I don't know if, in the recent past, there have been, but we are monitoring—

10:05 a.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Does that mean you're not aware of them, or that you don't think there have been?

10:05 a.m.

Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Philippe Morel

I'm not aware.

10:05 a.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Okay.

10:05 a.m.

Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Philippe Morel

I can provide you with that information.

I know that fisheries officers are monitoring the fishery closures and the MPAs, but I don't have the exact number, for example, in the last three or five years, that we did enforce....

10:05 a.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

If you could submit that in writing to us, it would be helpful.

10:05 a.m.

Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

10:05 a.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

It might apply to a couple of my follow-up questions, as well.

Do you know what penalties are imposed on those who violate the fishery closures?

10:05 a.m.

Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Philippe Morel

I don't have those details, but we can provide them.

10:05 a.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Obviously, there are penalties.

Are all no-take areas monitored by DFO for illegal fishing and other prohibited activities?

10:05 a.m.

Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

10:05 a.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Can you explain a little bit about how they're monitored?

10:05 a.m.

Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Philippe Morel

They're monitored through the information we get from fisheries officers. Another source of information comes from other stakeholders that monitor the oceans. It could also be through fishery associations or fishermen who provide information that is useful for us to gather and to then implement enforcement actions.