Evidence of meeting #54 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mpa.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Philippe Morel  Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Annette Daley  Director, Oceans Management, Maritimes Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Jeff MacDonald  Director General, Oceans and Fisheries Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Robert Elliott  Director General, Economic Analysis and Statistics, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

April 4th, 2017 / 8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to meeting number 54 on Tuesday, April 4, 2017. We're continuing with our study.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee commences its study on the Oceans Act's marine protected areas and a motion of the MPA study. This morning we have some very special guests.

We expect this to be a fairly lengthy study. We're planning on travelling to the Northwest Territories as well as British Columbia in the next few months. We're also going to have several witnesses over that time.

I'll introduce our guests.

Philippe Morel is the acting senior assistant deputy minister, ecosystems and fisheries management.

Mr. Morel, you'll be doing the speaking this morning for the opening 10 minutes. Is that correct?

8:45 a.m.

Philippe Morel Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Yes, that's correct.

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Everyone else will remain for questions and comments.

We also have with us Jeff MacDonald, director general, oceans and fisheries policy; Robert Elliott, director general, economic analysis and statistics; and Annette Daley, director, oceans management, Maritimes region.

Ms. Daley, a special request was made for you to come here. Thank you very much, as we all feel really special about that. We're glad you could join us. You're at the Bedford Institute right now, correct?

8:45 a.m.

Annette Daley Director, Oceans Management, Maritimes Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Yes, I am.

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Alejandro DeMaio-Sukic is a manager, economic analysis. Thank you for joining us this morning. There was a special request for you to come in to talk about this.

Mr. Morel, please proceed.

8:45 a.m.

Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Philippe Morel

Good morning. Thank you for inviting us today.

We are pleased to support your interest in the government's efforts to protect our three oceans. As you are aware, on June 8, 2016, as part of the World Oceans Day celebrations, Ministers LeBlanc, McKenna, and Bennett announced the government's five-point plan to meet its target to increase marine and coastal protection to 5% by 2017 and 10% by 2020, as mandated by the Prime Minister.

Our plan is the result of a long-term science investment and extensive collaboration with provinces, territories, indigenous groups, coastal communities, fisheries groups, and other marine sector and environmental groups.

I would like to briefly outline the five-point plan, which is further detailed in the background presentation circulated to you. I do not intend to go over the presentation that was circulated. It was sent to you for future reference.

Since the committee has expressed a specific interest in various aspects of how we develop Oceans Act MPAs, I would also like to briefly outline the MPA process, which is also further detailed in the background presentation.

Our first objective is to make progress on and complete the designation of marine protected areas under way. In some cases, the process to protect these areas began more than 15 years ago. We develop our marine conservation objectives at the national level; they are not broken down by region or ocean. Instead, we work in areas in need of protection, when the scientific community alerts us to a need or when stakeholders and communities call for conservation measures.

In November, we designated Anguniaqvia niqiqyuam—which is equally difficult to pronounce in English and French—also known as Darnley Bay, in the Arctic. In February, the Hecate Strait and Queen Charlotte Sound Glass Sponge Reefs, in the Pacific region, became our 10th designated MPA.

We are making good progress on the designation of three other proposed MPAs: St. Anns Bank off the eastern Scotian Shelf; the Laurentian Channel in the continental shelf off Newfoundland and Labrador; and the American Bank in the Gulf of St. Lawrence.

The Parks Canada Agency is currently working on establishing the Lancaster Sound national marine conservation area. In December, Environment and Climate Change Canada published, in part I of the Canada Gazette, the government's intent to designate the marine area around the Scott Islands as a marine national wildlife area. These two protected areas will help us achieve our conservation objectives for 2017.

The international marine conservation target allows countries to count the contribution made to marine biodiversity by other effective area-based conservation measures, also called “other measures”. We developed criteria on other measures last year, based on scientific advice and the guidance emerging from the Canadian Council on Ecological Areas and the International Union for Conservation of Nature, IUCN. These criteria are also found on our website and in the presentation on slide 9.

We needed to advance our approach on other measures so they could contribute to our 2017 target, and we are now international leaders in this area. We are working closely with the IUCN and other international partners on this front, and they have been interested and supportive.

The background presentation includes a map outlining these areas as well as future fishery closures for the 2017 target, which we are currently exploring with provinces, territories, indigenous groups, fisheries groups, and environmental groups.

We are also pursuing the establishment of new, large Oceans Act MPAs in offshore areas that are greater than 100,000 square kilometres. We are determining the exact location and size of these areas in consultation with our partners, indigenous groups, marine industries, and other stakeholders.

We are also exploring how the Oceans Act can be updated to speed up the designation process for MPAs without sacrificing science or the public's opportunity to provide input.

We will also look at how to improve the act's ability to support application of the precautionary principle while incorporating the best available science.

We noted that the March 24 Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development report recommends that the government “explore more effective and innovative mechanisms to expedite protection for marine and coastal areas”. The ENVI report also calls for Oceans Act amendments that enable interim marine protection before areas are formally established, and shortened time frames to develop our network of marine protected areas.

Work is currently under way to prepare a proposed bill for the Oceans Act, and is well aligned with these recommendations. Consultation on the proposed amendments is ongoing.

For our 2020 target, work continues to advance MPA networks in priority bioregions. Through these processes we will establish additional Oceans Act MPAs in areas under pressure from human activities.

Now I will talk a little bit about the MPA development process. This is detailed starting on page 24 of the presentation.

Over the last 20 years, extensive science has identified ecologically and biologically significant areas in our three oceans, also called EBSAs.

Through the MPA network planning processes, which are under way in five key marine bioregions, most candidate areas for Oceans Act MPA establishment, also known as areas of interest, AOIs, are already identified. These AOIs are not selected in a vacuum. Using the ecosystem approach and applying precaution, these AOIs are selected based on information about their ecological and biological significance, much of which was developed through the EBSA process. Once an AOI is selected, ecological and socio-economic data are compiled and analyzed for the effects a conservation action may have, both positive and negative. Indigenous traditional knowledge is important, particularly for areas in which scientific information is limited.

Biophysical and ecological overview reports are compiled and include the ecological importance and key physical, ecological, and biological information for the area. Traditional and local ecological knowledge is also included as appropriate.

Conservation objectives are then developed using risk-based tools to determine what human activities are compatible with these objectives.

Socio-economic overview and assessment reports are also produced and include the variety and intensity of economic activities and current use of resources for the area. These reports may also describe potential future economic activities where the probability and level of confidence is high that the activity will occur. Fisheries and Oceans has produced guidance for completing and integrating socio-economic analysis into marine protected area development. This ensures that the analysis undertaken is rigorous and consistent across the country, and meets professional standards.

A management approach and proposed MPA regulations are then developed. At this stage, every effort is made to understand, analyze and minimize the economic impact on marine user groups while respecting the conservation objectives.

Once the MPA is designated, we work with indigenous and local communities to implement the management plan in an adaptive way, including ecological and compliance monitoring and research. MPAs are created on a permanent basis, and we ensure that all affected and interested groups and parties are engaged and included in a collaborative manner through the entire process.

In conclusion, DFO is conscious that protecting our oceans is a long-term but necessary investment in renewing our marine natural capital, and supports balanced ecosystems. These outcomes help secure long-term productivity and economic opportunities for many maritime sectors, including fisheries. Our work on meeting our marine conservation targets also helps to lay the long-term foundation to advance marine spatial planning to better manage our oceans' resources.

Once again, thank you for the opportunity to provide you with this briefing on the government's plan. We are pleased to respond to your questions.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you for being exactly 10 minutes.

Now we start our seven-minute questions and comments.

Ms. Jordan, for seven minutes, please.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Thank you all for being here today and for your presentation.

My headpiece wasn't working when you were speaking in French, so I missed some of the translation on the areas you're working on now. You talked about one on the Nova Scotia coast. Where exactly is that, and where is it in the process?

8:55 a.m.

Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Philippe Morel

It's at St. Anns Bank.

It has been published in the Canada Gazette, part I. We received comments, and now we're analyzing the comments to prepare for a process with the Canada Gazette, part II.

We are also in the process of consulting on the different comments. Maybe Annette can add information. She's leading the consultation and engagement in the region.

9 a.m.

Director, Oceans Management, Maritimes Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Annette Daley

We've looked at and analyzed the comments, and we've made some adjustments to one of the zones in the MPA. We're going back to consult with some of our stakeholders who had comments in the Canada Gazette, part I, to communicate what our planned changes are and with a view to moving to Canada Gazette, part II.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Could you walk me through the process of consultation, then? We've heard that you do consultations with all of the partners involved, including your fishermen and the indigenous groups. Can you walk me through how you actually do that? How do you reach out to those people? How do they provide feedback? Is it just a matter of publishing in the Gazette, or is it a bigger process?

9 a.m.

Director, Oceans Management, Maritimes Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Annette Daley

If that question is directed toward me, I can start by going back to, for example, St. Anns Bank. It's actually quite an extensive consultation process that starts very early on in the identification of an area of interest for us.

In the case of St. Anns Bank, probably about 2008 or 2009 we would have started to focus in on several areas of interest for us that had biological or ecological interest. Through consultation and discussion with stakeholders, in the case of St. Anns Bank, I think we narrowed it down to about three candidate sites, and then further consulted much more directly with stakeholders, narrowing down those sites and choosing the one that had interest for us from an ecological and biological standpoint, a scientific standpoint, and for the stakeholders perhaps minimized the impacts on the industry and other stakeholders' interest in those sites.

We eventually narrowed it to St. Anns Bank. When we did that, we, again, held open houses throughout the region. We had a multi-stakeholder advisory committee that was established using academia, the provinces, the indigenous communities, industry groups, and fisheries groups. We used that advisory committee through the process of further identifying the conservation objectives, for example, for St. Anns Bank. That process went right through to 2015.

As part of our ongoing process for marine protected area planning, we also have processes outside of that specific site to talk to provinces, indigenous communities, and other stakeholders.

For example, on the MPA planning process right now, I meet monthly with the province and other federal departments as we work through the identification of other potential sites. I meet regularly with the indigenous communities, through the KMKNO consultation process here in Nova Scotia. We meet quarterly with environmental NGOs and with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans to go through discussions on this and other fisheries issues. We brief some of our fisheries advisory committees regularly.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

You said you started this process for St. Anns Bank in 2009 and did the consultations. It was a six-year process, basically; you said it finished in 2015. My question is this. We're shooting for a target of 5% by the end of 2017. Is that a realistic target, based on the fact that sometimes it takes six years to go through just the consultation process?

9 a.m.

Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Philippe Morel

It is a target that is certainly ambitious, but a target that we believe we can meet through different measures.

There's not only the MPA process. That's a small contribution to the overall 5%. We're looking at other measures and how they can contribute to the protected area objectives. The Scott Islands wildlife marine area and the Lancaster Sound parks are also two major contributors to the 5% target.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

I remember that one of the department officials, when we were talking about MPAs before, described it as both exciting and terrifying to try to reach these targets, but they felt that it was very doable.

So you see the 5% as ambitious, but doable.

9 a.m.

Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

9 a.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

What about the 10% by 2020?

9 a.m.

Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Philippe Morel

The 10% is where the MPAs.... There are the larger MPAs that we're working on for 2020. By modifying the Oceans Act to make it faster, we anticipate we will be able to meet the 10% by designating more MPAs. There is also the MPA network, which is a combination of different sites in one ecosystem and will also contribute to the 10%. It's the addition of all that.

Now we're working on the low-hanging fruit, I must say. We're also working to prepare to be able to deliver on the additional 5% between 2018 and 2020.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

I come from the South Shore of Nova Scotia. It has a huge fishing and lobster industry. One of the concerns we've heard is that we're trying to shut down industry.

I know that's actually not the case. Just because you designate something as an MPA does not mean you cannot commercially fish. Is that correct? It depends on the MPA, I guess.

9:05 a.m.

Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Philippe Morel

Exactly. It depends on the conservation objectives that the MPA sets. If we're protecting fish habitat, and the science tells us that we can continue to have shipping or certain commercial fisheries that will not affect the MPA conservation objectives, then yes.

We always look at what we can authorize and what we should not authorize, depending totally on the conservation objectives.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you very much, folks.

I have just a couple of reminders for everybody, as we haven't had witnesses in a while. When we reach the time expired, the seven minutes or five minutes, whatever the time may be, I won't allow anyone else to ask a question; however, I will allow our guests to finish their answers going beyond the seven minutes, if that's okay with everybody. I find that's probably a lot more sensible.

Also, let's not forget, when we're directing a question to someone, to mention them by name in the beginning. That's better for our people who are recording this, and it's much better for those joining us by video conference.

We're now going to Mr. Doherty, for seven minutes, please.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Thank you Mr. Chair, and thank you to our guests for being here today.

Mr. Morel, on average how much time elapses between an area of interest being considered as an Oceans Act MPA and its becoming one?

9:05 a.m.

Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Philippe Morel

Jeff may have more details, but on average it takes between five and seven years—more towards the seven-year time frame—to designate an MPA.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Is it your testimony today that economic analyses have been done on the five protected areas, the Hecate Strait and Queen Charlotte Sound glass sponge reefs, Darnley Bay, St. Anns Bank, Laurentian Channel, and banc des Américains in the St. Lawrence?

9:05 a.m.

Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans