Evidence of meeting #56 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mpas.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Bill Wareham  Science Projects Manager, Western Region, David Suzuki Foundation
Susanna Fuller  Senior Marine Conservation Coordinator, Ecology Action Centre
Leonard LeBlanc  Managing Director, Gulf of Nova Scotia Fleet Planning Board
Ian MacPherson  Executive Director, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
Jordan Nickerson  Fish harvester, As an Individual
Robert Jenkins  President, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association

9:45 a.m.

Jordan Nickerson Fish harvester, As an Individual

Good morning, committee. I would like to thank everyone for their time this morning.

My name is Jordan Nickerson. I was asked here today to discuss my stance on both marine protected areas and sensitive benthic areas in Canada's marine conservation strategy.

I would first like to take a minute to give everyone some background information about me and the company of my family, which I represent.

Our family business started in 1988; however, our family roots as fishmongers started well before then in a small community called Woods Harbour, tucked away in southwest Nova Scotia. Three brothers came together and built a business buying lobsters and groundfish from independent inshore fishermen, creating a quality product to ship worldwide and developing quality business relationships with customers who are still with us today.

Over the years we have seen groundfish come and go, lobster catches rise and fall, prices at their highest, and prices so low the industry ground to a halt. Throughout this time our family business has managed to stay alive, battle the good fight, and earn a meagre living. We employ 50 employees year-round and try to give them a decent living in an area always held ransom by the rewards and debts of the ocean.

I graduated from Dalhousie University in 2010 with honours in earth sciences. Oddly enough, I spent several years studying the very corals and sponges that we endeavour to protect today. Upon graduation, my father urged me to go west for work, as the lobster and groundfish fishery was in a state of rebuilding and the future of our business model was uncertain. I worked in western Canada as a geologist for four years, coming home only in the spring and fall to try to effectively manage my father's recent purchase of deep-sea red crab licences.

For those of you who may not be aware, the deep-sea red crab lives in a very narrow band of waters on the Scotian Slope over 500 metres deep. They can only be caught by baited traps at very specific times of the year in a very unique area of the ocean.

My father first purchased the only deep-sea red crab licences in Atlantic Canada, as it was apparent that the future of any seafood business grossly relied on being able to source seafood for the increasing Chinese demand. He also realized that with such a niche fishery, and it was his opportunity to manage it for the future of his business, his community, and his family.

My father, with a lifetime in the fishery, was very hesitant to allow me to join the family business, as I had a very lucrative job oil-prospecting in a booming part of Canada. However, eventually I decided it was in my best interest to follow my dream and my passion, working in the seafood industry with my family. Some might even say it was in my blood.

After spending four years and countless hours experimenting, studying, and working with our developing fishery on the deep-sea red crab, we decided to literally put it all on the line, build a special-purpose, innovative vessel specifically designed to harvest this delicate crab species, and service the premium live market in China.

With a price tag of $1.5 million, 12 months of labour, and a novel approach to a fishery susceptible to boom and bust, our venture was hailed as one of the biggest risks anyone has ever taken in my area.

We launched our vessel Ina K, appropriately named after my grandmother, Ina Kathline Nickerson, in October 2015 and made two trips to the Corsair Canyon in which enough product was landed to deem the investment a possible success.

Of course you may remember the Corsair Canyon. It was announced as a sensitive benthic area in September 2016.

Our crab was landed in pristine quality and our customers were satisfied with our product. As a company, we were slightly relieved, as it looked as though we might actually achieve our dream and see a possible return on investment, while the idea of providing more long-term jobs was perhaps actually possible.

With our sample harvest landed, the vessel was taken out of active fishing duty for the winter as we developed our markets to prepare for the start of the next year's full crab season. As it was, during this winter we were all too quickly familiarized with the concept of MPAs, SBAs, and marine conservation targets, by DFO and the Government of Canada. Abruptly, our access to our fishing grounds was being called into question, thereby adding more complexity to an already strenuous situation.

This current directive to protect the ocean leaves me with more questions than answers. As harvester and processor, I would like to know how I, my business, my employees, and our shared future will be affected. What are our goals for MPAs and SBAs? I've often heard about collective goals of SBAs and MPAs; however, I feel I must describe our approach to our fishery and how the new mandate of SBAs and MPAs will directly affect us and our business.

Having sole ownership of the deep-sea red crab quota and unique fishing grounds that the crab inhabits moulded our concept of harvesting this species and ultimately forced us to become self-governing.

Our fishing grounds are found in the most remote, deepest section of the ocean, where science is lacking and information is virtually non-existent. Taking the time to survey the ocean bottom, sample fishing grounds, develop catch models, and map out our effective catch areas allowed us to justify building and investing in our fishery.

Since this deep-sea red crab is a very sensitive creature that has a very unique and slow-growing life cycle, we came out with the following catch model. First, fish where the crab are. Deep-sea red crab fishery will start in late April and May to coincide with their migration up slope to more fertile grounds as the lobsters migrate inshore to vacate the upper slope.

To be effective harvesters and limit lobster as a bycatch, we must use fishing history and models to determine what sections of the slope to target during various times of the year. With the implementation of SBAs in the Corsair Canyon, a sizeable section of my fishing area is now in jeopardy. Now I must increase my effort in neighbouring areas, which will increase my total exploitation rate to an unknown extent.

Second, avoid sensitive times and areas. Red crab mate, shed, and release eggs in a very small, definable area during specific times of the year. We avoid these areas for harvest to minimize disruption to this activity. As I lose ground to fish in, I and others may be forced to target these sensitive areas, causing more problems than solutions.

Keep enough crab in the water. Each year we tweak our catch according to productivity and profitability. This renewable resource approach is based upon the finite area that we are allowed to harvest. What do we do, without being able to fish the entire ground?

If our goals as harvesters and conservationists are not aligned, we will never find a common ground for a solution. Science and direct facts will lead us to a better understanding and ultimately may lead us to a shared interest. At this juncture, proposed closures seem to add havoc and limit the underlying science, save for the drive of achieving the same target under a percentage that would detract from the values we proposed to protect.

A second question is, who set the criteria for the goals and how will we achieve them in this timeline? Nova Scotia is now dependent on the fishery more than ever. Our offshore oil and gas sector has dried up, and the future of new offshore oil and gas royalties is bleak at best. Manufacturing in Nova Scotia will only provide a handful of jobs, and the combined effort of all other sectors makes Nova Scotia a have-not province without our fisheries.

I agree that conserving the fishery is in the best interests of our future generations, but only based upon science, true facts, and goals that can be attainable working with fishery stakeholders. The international arena has always levied huge pressure on any resource-rich country, especially if their goals are indifferent.

Canada should be a leader in listening to its people and taking the time to listen and spend the money and do the proper science before coming to a huge decision such as establishing SBAs and MPAs supposedly based on science. These decisions will take time, but they should be Canadian decisions based on Canadian timelines, not offhand commitments made to international arenas void of any voices of those who will be impacted most and who are most informed on the decision.

We should all understand the importance of saving and protecting the environment; however, environmental groups don't depend on the fishery to put food on the table and tax dollars to work. They are using their campaigns to maintain their future funding strings and their own future, without considering the impacts on those closest to the resource.

I think Canadians as a whole would love to protect some of their beautiful waters and the creatures that make up our ecosystem; however, once again we must take the time to do proper science and establish realistic timelines to ensure that the values we are protecting are the right values.

Who will be affected, and for how long? Ultimately, we agree that there will be sound reason to close sections of the seabed in hopes of protecting groundfish and sensitive benthic organisms. The amazing thing about our oceans, however, is that most species have legs and fins and are highly mobile. Even the most sedentary species spend their time floating around in the currents before settling on the ocean floor.

Our oceans are warming, and organisms relocate to areas that are more conducive to living with their highly specific needs. If a location that was deemed an MPA or SBA were highly recommended based upon science and we were locked into a lifetime ban on fishing, what value would this MPA or SBA have in 10 or 20 years? Will we need to add future MPAs and SBAs to compensate for the mass migration of species?

If this is the case, we as stakeholders question whether there will be any fishing grounds left for our children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren to come into the industry. Will they instead look west, as I did?

Will ill-informed decisions today ultimately force Atlantic Canadians to give up their true identity and heritage as fish harvesters and processors working and adapting to a changing ocean, or will future generations be forced to live their lives in mundane jobs in which their true spirit as pioneers and their ancestry are crushed by ill planning and lack of true science?

I thank you all for allowing me to speak. As you can no doubt understand, this is an issue that's very close to my heart, as I have been forced to watch wave after wave of regulation and rules alter the very foundation that my family has based their livelihood on for generations.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Robert Sopuck

Thank you, and again, Mr. Nickerson, you too were under the time.

I'm going to make an editorial comment here. I very much appreciate the testimony. I listened with great interest to the testimony from our witnesses just now. We often hear from bureaucrats and activists and people who are not directly involved in an industry, so to have industry representatives with their feet on the ground—or on their boats on the water—is very refreshing for the entire committee. We would urge you and all of your colleagues to follow this issue very closely, as does everybody else.

The first questioner is Mr. Morrissey, from the Liberal party, for seven minutes.

9:55 a.m.

Liberal

Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to share some of my time with my colleague Ms. Jordan.

To follow up on the editorial comments from the chair, I've sat through a lot of presentations in this committee over the last couple of years, and I want to acknowledge the three presentations I've just heard. As the chair has pointed out, often we will get a lot of data thrown at us from various professional segments or from staff at DFO, but you three have presented what is the face of the communities and the fishery.

Without being critical of anybody, in the preceding comments that were given, there was no reference to community well-being, and I think it's—

10 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

The question was asked.

10 a.m.

Liberal

Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE

Pardon?

10 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Robert Sopuck

Order.

10 a.m.

Liberal

Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE

That was from the presenters. There was none...and the focus was on the whole bio well-being of resources.

You cannot proceed down that road without having a thorough analysis of the impact on community, and you three did it so well. My brief question would be, do any of you feel that DFO is moving too fast in this area?

That's for whoever wants to answer, Mr. LeBlanc or particularly Mr. Nickerson.

10 a.m.

Managing Director, Gulf of Nova Scotia Fleet Planning Board

Leonard LeBlanc

From my experience and the discussion I had with DFO, I think they're moving too fast, based on the knowledge they have to support what actions they want to take. That's the main concern we have. If they had brought the evidence before us to say, “The Cape Breton Trough is special because of these criteria and this scientific proof”, then we could say, okay, they actually have brought some evidence before us.

When they want to move at the speed of light as they wish, without evidence, without giving us a reason why, and without giving us guarantees that we would be able to participate in that fishery, then we're saying to slow down. That's what they've done. They've taken a step back.

10 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Robert Sopuck

Excuse me. I've stopped the time.

For our witnesses by video conference, since you can't see us, if you would like to speak, just put your hand in the air and I will recognize you.

Let's start the time again, with Mr. Nickerson, please, briefly.

10 a.m.

Fish harvester, As an Individual

Jordan Nickerson

Again, I'm a small business owner. I'm dealing with a lot of issues on a daily basis in terms of boats, harvesters, and employees. Ultimately, to have to focus now on something else is a great stress on my timeline in being able to conduct my business. With being hauled away from my office and going to Halifax for meetings, it's hard for me to make sure to take care of my bottom line. This is all happening on a very strict timeline.

Again, I have no problem talking with DFO and working with everyone. I understand that certain things need to be protected. At the same time, I still need to protect my employees and my fishermen. I think that at the moment, yes, it's moving very quickly, but that being said, it's not that changes can't happen quickly.

10 a.m.

Liberal

Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE

Okay. I would like to go to Mr. MacPherson, and Mr. Jenkins may comment.

Just briefly, the lobster fishery is one of the great success stories of fishery management in the gulf region. Could you elaborate a bit on the steps the industry has taken? A lot of that is innovative and driven by the industry itself, and that has allowed this fishery today, which is one of the most successful in maritime and Atlantic Canada.

10 a.m.

Robert Jenkins President, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association

Ian has passed that over to me, Mr. Morrissey. I'll speak to some of the things that have been done in the past 10 years in the three LFAs on P.E.I.

I'll start with 26A under the ASLM. It took 19,700 traps out of their LFA and retired 33 licences. I believe area 25 is somewhat the same for reduction of licences; I believe it was over 30 in LFA 25. For area 24, LFA 24, there were carapace size increases. There wasn't a recommendation for them to ever actually buy up any licences when we did the ASLM, but they've done their share too.

It's ongoing. We're still doing things. The buffer zones were put in and were called “scallop buffer zones” in LFA 26A. It was a direct result of habitat protection for lobsters. Like we say, that's being looked at, I understand now, in the other LFAs for more habitat protection.

Regarding the lobster fishery, it's an ongoing thing. A lot of stuff has been done in the last 10 years regarding—

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE

Bobby, I have to turn my turn my time over to Ms. Jordan. This is an area we'd like to spend a lot more time on, but we don't have it.

April 11th, 2017 / 10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Thank you.

Thank you to our witnesses for appearing today.

Mr. Nickerson, my question is primarily for you. We had a lot of discussion with officials who said that they consulted heavily with people before they actually put in an MPA or a sensitive benthic area. I'm just wondering if you felt that you were consulted properly before the benthic area was announced for Jordan Bay.

10:05 a.m.

Fish harvester, As an Individual

Jordan Nickerson

Again, I was busy building our vessel and was in construction mode. The red crab fishery had been dormant for close to 10 years, so there was a lot of overlook on what actually was being fished in that area. I was not consulted directly. It wasn't until one of my independent fishermen spoke up in a meeting and said, “Listen, these guys are building a boat for the red crab fishery. Don't you think they'll be impacted?” It was at that time, of course, that we were just done fishing in the Corsair Canyon and DFO was alerted to the fact that we in fact were fishing in that area.

Financially, if we had not been in the correct area to build this boat, and maybe delayed it a couple of years, perhaps we wouldn't even have embarked on this journey to build the boat and keep these jobs. We probably could have been forced in an entirely different direction.

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Can I ask you to talk just a little bit about the fishermen in the community? I know that you're well informed in that community. Do you feel that they feel they were consulted enough on whether or not that benthic area should go forward?

10:05 a.m.

Fish harvester, As an Individual

Jordan Nickerson

They weren't. Again, fishermen are very industrious. They're busy fishing. In order to consult with fishermen, you have to get to them on their level. You can't have a town meeting. You have to go and talk to them as individuals.

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Thank you.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Robert Sopuck

Thank you very much.

Mr. Doherty, you have seven minutes.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Mr. Chair, I'm going to split my time with Mr. Arnold.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Robert Sopuck

As you wish.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

I have two real quick questions and a comment.

I will agree with our colleagues across the floor that this is who we should be talking to. This is who these decisions impact.

Mr. LeBlanc, I want to mention that this will be incredibly helpful for any witnesses who are appearing before the committee, moving forward. This is the right way to do it.

To the witnesses who are here—I think everybody can chime in on this—I'm wondering who was around the table when DFO was making the decisions on this. You said that clearly they weren't listening to the fishermen. Who was around the table? Which groups were around the table to make these decisions?

10:05 a.m.

Managing Director, Gulf of Nova Scotia Fleet Planning Board

Leonard LeBlanc

The first we heard was that they had an area of interest. When they talked to us, I think in November, that was the first we heard of it. We heard the buzzword of “MPA”. It was flowing everywhere.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Which groups were around the table?

10:05 a.m.

Managing Director, Gulf of Nova Scotia Fleet Planning Board

Leonard LeBlanc

Pretty well all the associations that would be affected by the area were first approached.