Evidence of meeting #56 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mpas.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Bill Wareham  Science Projects Manager, Western Region, David Suzuki Foundation
Susanna Fuller  Senior Marine Conservation Coordinator, Ecology Action Centre
Leonard LeBlanc  Managing Director, Gulf of Nova Scotia Fleet Planning Board
Ian MacPherson  Executive Director, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
Jordan Nickerson  Fish harvester, As an Individual
Robert Jenkins  President, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association

8:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Robert Sopuck

I'll call the meeting to order.

Welcome, everybody. Happy birthday to Mel Arnold. I was asked if we could sing Happy Birthday, and I refused. So there, the curmudgeon is in the chair.

We have two sets of witnesses today on marine protected areas. Welcome to Susanna Fuller, from the Ecology Action Centre, and Bill Wareham, from the David Suzuki Foundation. I think you've presented before this committee on other occasions.

We're somewhat pressed for time. We have three other witnesses later on for the next portion of the meeting. We'll start right away. We will have each of our witnesses give 10 minutes of testimony. For the questioning, we're going to be restricted to three questioners for seven minutes each, one from each party. That will add up roughly to the first 45 minutes.

Which one of you will start?

Mr. Wareham, you may begin.

8:45 a.m.

Bill Wareham Science Projects Manager, Western Region, David Suzuki Foundation

Thank you very much.

My name is Bill Wareham. I am with the David Suzuki Foundation. I've been working in the non-profit environmental sector for about 30 years, primarily in western Canada, and I've been with the Suzuki Foundation for about 14 years now.

On behalf of the Suzuki Foundation, I just want to thank your committee for inviting us to speak to you about the establishment of marine protected areas in Canada. The foundation appreciates your inquiry on how we can best meet our commitments to secure our natural marine heritage through the establishment of marine protected areas.

For the purposes of this presentation, I'll consider as protected areas those areas established by DFO, by Environment and Climate Change Canada, and by Parks Canada, knowing that there are different designation tools but we frame them all as marine protected areas.

The Suzuki Foundation's interest here is because the protection of nature and the application of resource management practices based on the principle of ecosystem-based management is one of our long-standing objectives. We see protected areas as one of the essential management tools in this overall frame of ocean management. We strongly believe that human systems, both cultural and economic, are interconnected and interdependent. We propose that without healthy, productive natural systems, both cultural and economic traditions and opportunities are diminished, and in the worst cases, as we have seen on both coasts, can be eliminated.

Every day the Suzuki Foundation hears from Canadians who ask us to uphold strong values for nature, environmental rights, collaboration, and respect for indigenous culture and rights. It's based on these values that we have committed to work in collaboration with indigenous people, communities, and commercial stakeholders to seek solutions aimed at protecting the coastal ocean and resources that we all depend on.

As we do, I ask that you view the oceans and the protection of our ocean environments in the same context as safeguarding freshwater systems for clean drinking water and agriculture, or saving forests and wetlands to control hydrologic systems, or maintaining clean air to accommodate overall human health and prevent harmful substances from entering our environment. We see this issue of protecting oceans through the management of protected areas as fundamental as caring for the rest of the landscape.

In the context of the 10% target, we are encouraged by the federal government's stated commitment to realize the international commitment to protect biodiversity and establish marine protected areas for at least 10%—and we underscore the “at least” because we do believe it's a floor and not a ceiling. How Canada attains this level of protection is a question that many Canadians have grappled with for decades. We commend the government for its efforts to take this bold step, and we feel strongly that enhanced effort is required to meet these objectives.

The Aichi targets have set a challenge for Canada to seriously consider the benefits of spatial protection. At present, we do not feel there is enough being done, or at a significant enough scale, to truly reduce the risks facing our oceans. Given that Canada has in the order of only 1% of its marine protected areas established now, we have an enormous but inspiring task ahead of us. Although we view these targets as a strong basis for action, we also strongly advise the committee to consider that the ecological values that are being conserved and the ultimate health of the oceans and the marine life are the two metrics that we should measure our performance against.

Why MPAs? Canada's oceans are a gift of abundance in productive capacity that is spectacular, yet very vulnerable at the same time. It is a system so complex that even our best scientists do not fully understand it, which accordingly requires precautionary management to minimize the risk to its healthy functioning. We believe that a proactive effort must be undertaken to ensure that the maintenance and recovery of natural systems and the species they support is paramount. We view marine protected areas as an important tool in the mix of management strategies required to meet this goal. Even within the context of marine protected areas, there is a range of management options, tools, and designations that create a matrix of protection measures that ultimately, we hope, can meet that overarching goal of protecting biodiversity and recovering degraded populations of species.

What is needed? In our view, our oceans need to be managed with an overarching framework, with goals and objectives that serve our commitments to protect biodiversity as per our biodiversity convention and the Canadian biodiversity targets, to ensure food security, and to support economic opportunity. In that context, we ask that marine protected areas and other effective area-based measures be used to ensure this long-term health of the marine system.

We propose that, as a country with a relatively high standard of living, Canada has a great opportunity to get it right by being precautionary and finding the effective means to manage, protect, and build our understanding of ocean ecosystems so that they continue to provide a bounty of food and of cultural and economic opportunity to Canadians. Whether the ultimate outcome is 10% or 50% protection, we believe that success will be realized by ensuring application of the correct management tools and conservation practices required by specific ecological values and conservation needs.

Protected areas must be effective, and there is significant evidence from around the globe in regard to what kinds of conditions and management practices result in effective protection.

To be successful in realizing marine biodiversity, conservation, and protected areas goals, we recommend that the government significantly increase its investment, capacity, and funding in the responsible agencies; support interagency decision structures to address overlapping mandates; establish effective governance structures with indigenous communities; accelerate the stakeholder engagement process; ensure comprehensive consultation; undertake appropriate cultural, scientific, and economic analysis to inform the decision-making process; ensure that effective monitoring enforcement mechanisms are in place; and continue scientific study to enable adaptive management and continued learning about our collective effects on ocean health.

Those are some of the key things. I'll send you a paper we have that has more context on some of the issues I've raised, which you can read. For now I'll summarize some of the key things that fall under international commitments.

We feel that Canada has made bold commitments on the convention on biodiversity. We've made commitments around the CBD targets. There's a lot of rationale for MPAs. There is a lot of science evidence and there are a lot of economic benefits that can be developed out of MPAs.

The biggest thing for us is really accepting that we don't know what's going on out there. Oceanographic conditions are changing in ways that we haven't seen before. Changing ocean conditions, oceanographic movements of warm waters, and acidic water and such things are changing both the distribution and abundance of species, and we need to learn more about these so that we don't risk eliminating species inadvertently by overharvesting in the wrong place at the wrong time.

We also see a very strong public perspective for MPAs. You'll get more evidence for this, I'm sure, from the World Wildlife Fund, but they conducted a poll this last year on the perspective of Canadians in regard to marine protected areas, and there's very strong evidence. More than 98% of Canadians support the creation of marine protected areas, 87% say that the current levels of protection are not enough, and 90% believe that there should be a minimum standard for MPAs.

That's one of the issues for us: setting minimum standards and really trying to understand what we need to do to constitute a protected area and define it formally vis-à-vis other types of management in the system that also offer some forms of protection but may not be in the same frame as the protected area that people have in their minds or that our legislation accommodates designating.

There's been a lot of effort on the west coast, where most of my experience is, and the paper outlines some of the things we've done in regard to MPAs and some of the challenges we have going forward.

With respect to our performance to date, the question for us is whether we are doing enough, and the short answer is no.

I'll give an explanation why I think that's the case. We've been at this for years. I have personally been working on this issue for more than 20 years on the west coast, and we don't have a lot of results to show for it. There are some small results, but on an area basis, they're miniscule in comparison with what we're trying to achieve with the 10%-plus target.

There's an enormous amount of work to do, and we can't see any other variable than putting more resources and capacity toward the file. We're falling behind other global developed nations in establishment of MPAs, so we think there's a need to accelerate our efforts to meet what we think is our responsibility globally.

The issue of indigenous protection and indigenous co-governance is very important to us. Particularly on the west coast there's a need to define how we can engage the reconciliation commitments and marine conservation and marine economic opportunities together to benefit communities, particularly those of coastal first nations, which depend on those areas for food and subsistence.

I'll summarize with some concluding recommendations. One is, as I mentioned, maintaining ecological integrity. Two is maintaining commitments around the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. Three is that protected areas should be defined using rigorous science and evidence. Four is that we really need to engage marine planning within the broader oceanscape so that we can contextualize where we put those MPAs.

There are two more quick points, the first on current funding levels. We've asked through the Green Budget Coalition for additional funding to go to each of the agencies. Second, the interagency requirement to collaborate is key, because that's where we see a lot of the bottleneck.

I'll leave it at that. In closing comments, again thank you for providing the opportunity. I'm happy to answer any questions in regard to the points I've raised.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Robert Sopuck

Thank you very much.

I have just one caveat.

Parliament opens at 10 o'clock. I think this first round will be okay, but they're talking about a number of votes that might be coming up. That's just a caveat for our witnesses.

Ms. Fuller, you have 10 minutes.

8:55 a.m.

Susanna Fuller Senior Marine Conservation Coordinator, Ecology Action Centre

Thank you, and thank you for inviting me to speak here today.

The Ecology Action Centre is Atlantic Canada's oldest and largest community-based environmental organization. We work toward sustainable environment and sustainable livelihoods.

I am pleased to be able to speak to you, on behalf of our over 5,000 members, on this important issue to Canadians. I would also like to congratulate you on your report on restoring lost protections and modernizing Canada's fisheries act as well as the reports on northern cod and Atlantic salmon. Clearly, you're all up for hard work in now undertaking this next study on marine protected areas, and this subject is not independent of your last three reports. The recommendations of those reports provide important context for marine protection.

I would strongly encourage you to consider the recommendations of the March 2017 report of the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development, entitled “Taking Action Today: Establishing Protected Areas for Canada’s Future”. The completion of that report enhances what you are doing today and over the next few months. Before I provide my substantive comments, I would like to let all of you know that the world is watching Canada as it works toward catching up to other countries on protecting its marine environment, and achieving this protection in a meaningful way.

To give you some perspective, the island nation of Palau has set aside 80% of its EEZ as a marine reserve. The United States, to our south, has protected 32% of its waters with 3% fully no-take areas. These examples help to keep our 2020 target of 10% in perspective. Countries will be reporting on their efforts at the first United Nations oceans conference in June, and I look forward to Canada being one of those countries.

I will focus now on a few key points that come directly from my experience in Atlantic Canada as a member of the advisory committee for the Sable Island Gully MPA; the St. Anns Bank area of interest, soon to MPA; experience both inside and outside of Canadian waters with respect to efforts to protect coral, sponge, and sea pen concentrations from bottom trawling activity; an active member of several fishery advisory committees; as well as a stakeholder in Marine Stewardship Council certifications.

The first key point is that it's high time we give back to our oceans. With less than 1% of Canada's coastal and marine environments currently protected, it's clear we focused on using, extracting, and harvesting from our oceans, rather than anywhere near an equal measure of protection. Canada is one of the few countries in the world with three oceans. Perhaps because we have so much ocean, we've come to think that it does not need more from us. Given the depleted status of many of our fish stocks—this year, as you all know, is the 25th anniversary of the northern cod collapse—we are still struggling with recovery to a point that allows commercial viability. We have increasing competition for our ocean space, and growing and unpredictable impacts of climate change. It's time to give back to the ocean.

The Royal Society report on Canada's marine diversity in 2012; a report on fisheries recovery in Canada, which I co-authored last year with Dr. Julia Baum at the University of Victoria; and the most recent Auditor General's report on sustaining Canada's fisheries, all conclude that we are not doing enough to protect our commercial fish stocks and marine biodiversity in general. I have no illusions that changing how we take care of our oceans will be easy, but I do know that maintaining the status quo is not an option. As noted in the ENVI report:

The single most important factor that witnesses identified as being necessary to develop and implement a plan to reach our protected area goals is political will and commitment.

We have the legislative ability to do it, and we have the technical ability to do it. We need to actually commit to it.

Second, the pace is challenging, but we must stay the course. I hear on a regular basis from various ocean stakeholders that the pace of protection, 5% by 2017 and 10% by 2020, is challenging, difficult, impossible. However, we had an early warning on our progress in the 2012 report issued by the commissioner of the environment and sustainable development, which stated that:

...Fisheries and Oceans Canada and Parks Canada have not planned, established, and managed a network of marine protected areas (MPAs) in accordance with their legislative mandates and policies and good practices in order to conserve and protect Canada’s marine biodiversity and fulfill Canada’s international targets under the Convention on Biological Diversity. As a consequence, Canada’s marine biodiversity remains at risk. By extension, the prosperity of many coastal communities in Canada with marine-based economies also remains threatened.

I have a significant amount of empathy for ocean stakeholders, particularly from small fishing associations, who you'll hear from later today, and first nations communities who may not have the capacity to meaningful engage when it's most needed.

However, I want to make the point that we are only experiencing this pace because very little effort was put into the commitments Canada made in 2010. We are starting at year six instead of at year one. In fact, we really only started this in the past year, hence, losing an opportunity to do this well and maintain good relationships. Proposals for MPAs have sat on the fisheries minister's desk for over 18 months with no consideration. This is not respectful to those of us who have spent significant time, some of it voluntary, around the table on advisory committees. I'm working with others to come to an agreement on protection measures.

Government responsiveness to commitments could have made this process much less onerous. We cannot slow down. Our oceans will not wait much longer for well-deserved protection. This is also the first time I've ever heard that DFO is moving too quickly, so I see here an opportunity to set a new expectation for other DFO-led processes.

Third, the selection of protected areas must be based on science. I cannot emphasize enough how important it is for Canada to use science as the basis for protected area selection and to set conservation-based objectives in areas legally designated. This practice must be consistent across all of our oceans, which means changing our culture of marine management where short-term socio-economic considerations are generally the primary consideration.

By focusing on using the best available science, we are creating a level playing field for all ocean users. We are also setting a consistent and predictable process. This is something we have long struggled to do in fisheries management. We need to get this right because failing is not an option. Closed areas, in the right place and with the right objectives, can help protect endangered species and vulnerable habitat, and they are an important tool for restoring depleted populations.

My one caveat to this point is that there is a much greater requirement and burden of proof for science in marine areas. It's interesting to note how different it is in terrestrial areas. We are able to protect terrestrial areas with much less science. We can't let the absence of all the information that we might want slow the progress of protection.

Fourth, we must have minimum standards. My colleague Bill Wareham mentioned this, as well.

An area is not protected if it allows industrial activity. This means bottom fishing activity, oil and gas development, ocean mining, etc. Canadians are clear about what they expect, as indicated by national polling completed by WWF in 2016. I believe you all have a copy of that polling, but if not, WWF will be presenting on it.

Currently, we have proposed MPAs that allow some of these activities to happen. These areas should not be considered to count towards our targets until industrial activity has been restricted, with a minimum of 75% no-take areas. Amending Canada's Oceans Act is an opportunity to establish these minimum standards by providing more consistency and predictability to MPA designation.

Fifth, indigenous protected areas need to be part of how we move forward in protecting our oceans. We have a national imperative to begin the process of reconciliation with indigenous peoples. One way of doing this is to encourage and facilitate the establishment of indigenous protected areas. We have a long and difficult road ahead of us to rebuild indigenous peoples' trust in federal departments and in settlers, to recognize decolonization as part of reconciliation, and this includes our coasts and oceans. Indigenous peoples should be empowered to declare indigenous conserved and protected areas.

The Ecology Action Centre recently co-hosted a workshop with the Atlantic Policy Congress of First Nations Chiefs on this subject. Once we receive permission from our Mi'kmaq and Maliseet partners, we will share the recommendations of that gathering with you.

Sixth, communities need to be supported in putting forward coastal protected areas, and provinces need to be on board, as well. I can say, from my experience in Nova Scotia, that there are coastal communities that know where the best areas to protect are, and in some cases, have already begun the process through informal agreements among users, mostly fisheries.

Community leadership and ownership, particularly in coastal protected areas, will be important in engaging Canadians and making government employees' jobs easier. It's also a key aspect of long-term monitoring and enforcement. As part of this, provinces also need to be supportive.

I've been very disappointed to hear representatives of the Nova Scotia provincial government state publicly that they do not want any more burden of protection. For a province that has protected 12% of its terrestrial environment and that relies so heavily on the ocean for food, economy, and culture, I find this attitude extremely unfortunate.

Seventh, as we move forward, it will be necessary to ensure adequate funding for ocean planning and protection. We won't be able to protect our oceans without good science, management, and enforcement. We must fund marine planning processes and ensure stakeholder engagement so that protecting our marine environment becomes part of who we are and how we see ourselves as global leaders.

Currently, on the east coast, there's a significant amount of focus on what happens in a protected area—we're zoning in our protected areas instead of committing to ocean planning—rather than viewing those as a larger piece of how we manage our oceans. Ocean marine protection and planning, particularly in its early stages, need to be adequately funded.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Robert Sopuck

You have one minute.

9:05 a.m.

Senior Marine Conservation Coordinator, Ecology Action Centre

Susanna Fuller

I'm almost done.

My eighth point is that international commitments must be met and continued. As my colleague noted, we committed to the Aichi target 11 in 2010, which commits us to 10% by 2020. The original percentage in the original zero draft of that target was 20%, and it was negotiated down to 10%. An international resolution at the World Conservation Congress in September called for 30%.

Our oceans are fluid and global. Our national efforts need to be part of Canada becoming an ocean leader.

At meetings last week at the UN, which I had the privilege to attend, Canada started down this path, working towards a new agreement to allow for the establishment of marine protected areas on the high seas outside of the 200-mile limit. This is very important, as currently there's no government framework for MPAs for 50% of the planet.

Finally, Canada must make strong commitments towards achieving its goals in the coming years and towards making progress in achieving the various elements of the sustainable development goal 14, which is about the oceans, as part of agenda 2030. The future of our three oceans, the biodiversity, and the people who depend on our oceans depend on meaningful ocean protection.

Thank you.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Robert Sopuck

Thank you very much. I commend both of our witnesses for being very diligent in being within the time limits.

The first questioner will be Mr. Hardie from the Liberals for seven minutes.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the guests for being here.

We've heard often from a variety of people that we want science-based decision-making to be done using the “best available science”.

Is our best available science good enough?

9:05 a.m.

Science Projects Manager, Western Region, David Suzuki Foundation

Bill Wareham

I'll speak to that first.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Would you both speak briefly, too? I have a number of questions.

Thank you.

9:05 a.m.

Science Projects Manager, Western Region, David Suzuki Foundation

Bill Wareham

Generally, we don't have all the science we need. That's why we advocate for the precautionary approach and also a commitment to adaptive management and learning around the issues that we are either concerned about or that conservation measures are being applied to. There hasn't been an ability to invest in the kinds of science we need, and we're seeing changes faster than we anticipated. Therefore, new kinds of science are required. For some of it, many years are needed to get relevant trend data.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Are the changes that you're seeing changes in—?

9:05 a.m.

Science Projects Manager, Western Region, David Suzuki Foundation

Bill Wareham

They're changes in oceanographic conditions. These are things we haven't studied because we haven't experienced them before. To get relevant data you need a time series of data to be credible. It's about investing in that continued learning and being precautionary in the interim.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Ms. Fuller.

9:05 a.m.

Senior Marine Conservation Coordinator, Ecology Action Centre

Susanna Fuller

I would just say that in comparison with many other countries we have a lot of science. We have consistent research vessel surveys for decades. We have universities that have done ocean science. In actual fact, I think we have enough science. Scientists always say we need more science—it's part of our self-perpetuation—but I think that we absolutely do have enough science. We also have ocean users who have been out there collecting information as well.

I would say that not doing things for science is not an excuse, and the precautionary approach and ecosystem approach are management decision-making tools to allow us to move forward in the absence of complete scientific information.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Moving forward, of course, depends on whom you speak to about whether or not an initiative moves us forward or holds us back.

We've heard your comments and comments from groups like yours, and what is missing to a large extent is any reflection of the commercial interests—the sport fishing, the people who fish for a living. To what extent do your organizations actually engage with these folks? What is the state of the relationship between, say, the Suzuki Foundation and the commercial or sport fishing groups?

9:10 a.m.

Science Projects Manager, Western Region, David Suzuki Foundation

Bill Wareham

As I said in my presentation, we've taken an active role in working with stakeholders. I have personally sat through numerous advisory committee planning processes. We have people sitting on the fisheries management advisory committees with DFO, so we meet with the fishermen regularly in those processes.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

What are they telling you?

9:10 a.m.

Science Projects Manager, Western Region, David Suzuki Foundation

Bill Wareham

As a more specific forum, we formed an NGO-commercial sector dialogue forum that we meet with regularly. We worked with the groundfish fleet on the west coast for over a decade to institute reforms to that fishery, which have resulted in benefits to the fishery and benefits to the abundance of the stock. We have a good working relationship there.

There's always tension around how much is enough and where you should close areas, but there's agreement that there is a level of protection necessary. It's about how we do it, how we manage it, and making sure that there is as much opportunity to fish, where that's possible, as we can have so that we maintain that industry. We're committed to doing that.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Thank you.

I'm sorry to cut you short, but our time is limited.

9:10 a.m.

Science Projects Manager, Western Region, David Suzuki Foundation

Bill Wareham

That's fine.

April 11th, 2017 / 9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

We've done, I think, eight studies so far, Mr. Chair, and those are festooned with a lot of recommendations, many of which call on the DFO to either boost resources or reallocate resources. This, the MPAs, represents yet another layer, and a number of us have concerns that the DFO is far short of the resources it needs to do an adequate job.

“How much is enough?” is like asking “How long is a piece of string?” and “How high is up?”, but if you were to rate what you understand of the DFO's processes right now on a scale of one to 10, how good are they at allocating the resources they have? Are they doing the right things or making the right priorities?

Second, based on that, how short are we of the resources necessary for them to do an adequate job of all of the things they're being asked to do, including MPAs?

9:10 a.m.

Senior Marine Conservation Coordinator, Ecology Action Centre

Susanna Fuller

I can speak briefly to that.

I think one thing to note is that, when anybody has been given something to do that they actually feel good about and feel like they are given direction on, the productivity increases. I fully understand that DFO is stretched and staff are stretched on this marine conservation target. At the same time, they are working hard and getting things done under the current budget.

We do know that DFO has been cut several times over the last decade. We've cut science. We've cut enforcement. We've cut fisheries management. I don't have a number, but maybe Bill does because he's closer to the Green Budget Coalition recommendations. However, I think the other thing is that you can make things happen much more quickly, if you have good process and you have dedicated staff. That process piece is key because the longer DFO staff have to take to come to an agreement on a particular protected area, the more money it's going to take and the more staff time.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Can we ask Mr. Wareham to comment, please?

9:10 a.m.

Science Projects Manager, Western Region, David Suzuki Foundation

Bill Wareham

In the Green Budget Coalition this year, we had asked for an additional $60 million, specifically for DFO to engage in the co-management elements that we think are essential. We think that's a bottleneck to developing MPAs. We also asked for $60 million to go to Environment and Climate Change Canada to deal with a basic lack of capacity, so they can just get people on the ground meeting and delivering the processes that they already have in the works, let alone new ones.

Those are some short-term gaps that we see. Ideally, there would be some more, if we think that additional resources will be required to meet deadlines, like 2020, when you look at the long-term targets.