Evidence of meeting #58 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mpas.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Ms. Nowlan, do you expect that there will be economic impact for coastal communities as the government pursues their MPAs?
10:05 a.m.
Staff Counsel, West Coast Environmental Law Association
I think my colleague referred to a study that just came out from the Scottish government that showed that the socio-economic impacts were not as great as predicted, so I'll look to that study. They've established a lot of MPAs in Scotland over the past five years, I think, and that study is some evidence. I also wanted to point out that, in Atlantic Canada, fishing organizations themselves have proposed MPAs. With the Eastport MPA off Newfoundland, it was lobster fishers who came and proposed an MPA because they were concerned about lobsters. In Gilbert Bay in Atlantic Canada, again, to protect the golden cod, the fishers came—
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
In your testimony earlier, I believe, you said that there should be absolutely no activity in an area where an MPA is. I believe that's what your testimony was. Is that correct?
10:05 a.m.
Staff Counsel, West Coast Environmental Law Association
At least 75% of an area should be free, but yes, I'm referring to the fact that some fishing communities also want MPAs to protect their valuable fishing resources.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
For the fishermen off St. Anns Bank in the eastern Scotian Shelf, do you believe there should be no fishing in that area if there is the proposed MPA?
10:05 a.m.
Staff Counsel, West Coast Environmental Law Association
The 75% rule is according to IUCN guidance, and in almost every single one of the 10 MPAs established under Canada's Oceans Act, I think, there is fishing. There is a core zone, maybe, that's a no-take zone, but there are zones around in which fishing carries on.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
On the west coast of British Columbia, we have a considerable amount of international shipping as well as our commercial fisheries. Do you believe we should limit that to 75% as well?
10:05 a.m.
Staff Counsel, West Coast Environmental Law Association
Limit shipping to 75%...? I think—
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
10:05 a.m.
Staff Counsel, West Coast Environmental Law Association
No, not quite. If you establish an MPA in an area, 75% of that area should be free from activities that are going to harm the biodiversity conservation objective.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Do you believe we should allow certain exemptions for indigenous groups and commercial and recreational fishermen?
10:10 a.m.
Staff Counsel, West Coast Environmental Law Association
Yes, and they are allowed now in almost all MPAs. It's just the size of the zone that you allow the fishing in. Ocean is different from land, as Dr. Cox said. The trend is to multi-zoned MPAs, but the largest part of the zone of that special area that's for protection should be for protection.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you, Todd.
Mr. Morlock, we often hear about examples from other countries in regard to MPAs and fish conservation. Do you have any evidence of how other countries are dealing with recreational fishing and their successes in the marine environment?
10:10 a.m.
Chair of Government Affairs Committee, Canadian Sportfishing Industry Association
I think one of the better examples would probably be Australia as far as saltwater fisheries are concerned. I think they're recognized as being very progressive. There are always problems. There's never a perfect solution, but they've been very progressive at addressing problems and correcting them, and so on. The two studies I referred to earlier are taking a look at that in an objective way, I think, and reporting on that.
One of the things that I took from the one study I was reading was that MPAs are not necessarily effective at addressing the problems that plague the oceans—things like sedimentation, acidification, pollution, and so on. Certainly recreational fishing has no role in that yet. Both commercial and recreational fishing are often targeted more as a feel-good exercise, I think, as opposed to an effective solution. Australia would certainly be the example I would look to. Many countries have failed miserably in fisheries management, Europe being the notable example.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you.
I want to get one quick question in for all of the witnesses here today, so I'll ask for a quick answer from each of you.
Should Canada be looking further at what other countries around the world are doing, and should this committee look closely at what other countries are doing in this study in regard to MPAs?
10:10 a.m.
Chair of Government Affairs Committee, Canadian Sportfishing Industry Association
My answer would be that certainly the United States is an example of excellent fisheries management. There are problems again, but Presidents Clinton and Bush both reaffirmed that recreational fishing should be a priority in all waters managed by the federal government.
10:10 a.m.
Staff Counsel, West Coast Environmental Law Association
Yes. Definitely look at MPAs, not just fisheries management around the world. Look at how much progress people have made very quickly—Australia, the U.K., the EU, South Africa, and many other countries.
10:10 a.m.
Vice-Chair of Science and Biodiversity, World Commission on Protected Areas, International Union for Conservation of Nature
Clearly, yes, and I could offer to help you make contacts on that, because the IUCN works with countries, and it's the 187 members of IUCN that can help provide that information.
10:10 a.m.
Prof. Sean Cox
I agree. It's always good to look at how other countries are doing things. I think you would also look at the structures that are in place to help them do what they're doing. Australia, for instance, has a fisheries management authority that's at arm's length from government. That has a big effect on what they can do and how they do it, as well as how their fisheries management is funded.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Pat Finnigan Liberal Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to our panel for being here today. It's a very good conversation and it's certainly going to help us with our report.
I'm curious. In Atlantic Canada, where I'm from, we have a zone that I think is called the “Shediac zone” or the “Shediac area”, and it has been looked at for several years. If you look at the history of that zone, you can see that it's been fished commercially and recreationally for hundreds of years. We have lobster fishing, crab fishing, and all the groundfish and the shellfish. It has been managed. Lobster is now abundant because of some of the measures that have been taken there.
What would trigger, I guess you could say, this zone of interest right now for an MPA? How would it improve that zone? What do you see happening to all the fisheries that go on there? I'll leave that for anybody from the panel.
10:10 a.m.
Prof. Sean Cox
You're looking at me.
10:10 a.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
10:10 a.m.
Prof. Sean Cox
I don't know this area at all.
