Evidence of meeting #59 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was recommendations.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Trevor Swerdfager  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Oceans Science and Oceans Protection Plan, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Rebecca Reid  Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Sylvie Lapointe  Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Good morning, everyone.

My name is Scott Simms. I represent central Newfoundland. You may remember me from some episodes of past studies. Just for the benefit of the people in the room, I've been away on another committee assignment for a while. I've since returned, for good or bad or what have you.

We're in the midst of doing a study on marine protected areas; however, today we are going to take a break from it.

I'll just say what we're doing today. It was agreed that the committee invite officials from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans to appear before the committee in the month of May to provide an update on the government's response to the 75 recommendations of the Cohen Commission of Inquiry into the Decline of the Sockeye Salmon in the Fraser River.

We have a couple of things to deal with first, folks, before we get into it.

Mr. Sopuck, I think you wanted some time.

8:45 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

Yes.

As you'll recall, colleagues, a few weeks ago we had Sir Edward Mountain from the Scottish Parliament here. I happened to be in the chair at the time. He sent a very nice note back and asked me to read it to you:

Dear Robert, Thank you so much for allowing me to join in the discussion this morning on aquaculture. It is clear that the Standing Committee on Fisheries and... Oceans and the Scottish Parliamentary Committee on Rural Economy and Connectivity look at similar issues. It did seem strange that I was sitting facing the Committee, a new experience, which you and your fellow members made enjoyable. I would be very grateful if you could pass on my thanks to... [the members of the committee] for allowing me the privilege to meet them. Thank you also for the kind gift and I will look forward to wearing it and doing so with pride. Yours [truly], Edward

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

What was the gift again?

8:45 a.m.

A voice

It was a tie clip.

8:45 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

I think it was appropriate to read that.

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you, Mr. Sopuck, and we thank Mr. Mountain for visiting us. I'm sure it was entertaining as well as thoughtful.

8:45 a.m.

An hon. member

It was interesting.

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Yes, it was very much so, I hear. I had the pleasure of meeting him as well. He's a very nice man.

Before we get to the formal part, I want to welcome Ms. Pam Goldsmith-Jones, who comes to us from West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country. It's a beautiful name, but it nevertheless always competes with mine, as it is long. Mine used to be Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, so I used to have this competition.

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

Pam Goldsmith-Jones Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Thank you.

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Nevertheless, it's good to see you. I'm sure, given where you're from, this is an issue you know quite a bit about.

Now let's go to our guests. As we mentioned, we wanted to bring officials from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

Sylvie Lapointe is with us, and Rebecca Reid as well.

I keep saying this every time, Trevor, when I introduce you. I say, “a man who needs no introduction”. This time I'm going to say, “a man who needs no name plate”, because we know you so well. Trevor Swerdfager, of course, is from DFO. He is senior assistant deputy minister, ecosystems and oceans science and oceans protection plan—a new part of your title. That's new to us now.

Please go ahead for 10 minutes.

8:50 a.m.

Trevor Swerdfager Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Oceans Science and Oceans Protection Plan, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair. As you pointed out, my title now rivals the names of some ridings. It has challenged our business card production, particularly in French.

8:50 a.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

8:50 a.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Oceans Science and Oceans Protection Plan, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Trevor Swerdfager

I'd like to start out by saying thank you very much for inviting the department to be here today.

My colleague Rebecca Reid has had a little delay down in security, so she'll be joining us fairly shortly.

We have a number of introductory remarks to make, and as you've already pointed out, Sylvie Lapointe, who is the assistant deputy minister for fisheries management is with us as well.

It is, as I say, quite a pleasure for us to be here. As you know, the Cohen commission took more than three years to develop quite a comprehensive report into the causes of the decline of Fraser River sockeye salmon, back in 2009. As you know, it found that, despite the presence of smoked salmon, there's no smoking gun with respect to the causes of the decline. A number of factors have in fact been identified as contributing to the potential decline of sockeye salmon.

In response to the complex picture that emerged after reviewing thousands of documents and hearing from nearly 200 witnesses and experts, Justice Cohen made 75 recommendations, which covered quite a broad range of issues, as you know. He particularly touched on science, aquaculture, fisheries management, habitat protection, and then, of course, wild salmon policy.

Most of the recommendations pertained to Fisheries and Oceans Canada, but about 15 of them pertained to other departments or to the Government of British Columbia.

Since the Cohen commission report was released in 2012, these recommendations have in large measure guided our activities and interactions on matters related to the management of the Fraser River salmon.

Since it was released in 2012, we've been working on implementing the elements of the report in an integrated manner. In this way, we're able to cut across the organization and ensure that the right staff are involved and included. While ensuring attention to Fraser River sockeye salmon stocks, we've also broadened our response to look at all wild Pacific salmon.

In August of last year, the honourable Minister LeBlanc announced that Fisheries and Oceans Canada had implemented over 30 of the report's recommendations in collaboration with the Government of British Columbia, Environment and Climate Change Canada, indigenous people, and a variety of interest groups.

Today I would like to highlight some of the department's current activities as well as our plans to implement other measures. To leave committee members enough time for questions, I will focus on the progress made on a number of the key themes addressed in the Cohen commission report, rather than going through the 75 recommendations one by one.

Of the 75 recommendations contained in the final report, 39 are being delivered by our science branch, which I am part of. The Cohen recommendations that fall in this theme relate to fish health, stock assessment, climate change, and a variety of other science topics. Science is very much a core component of the department, and it is an integral component of sustainably managing Pacific salmon and, for that matter, all of our fishery.

As members of this committee will know, $41.5 million annually for over five years has been recently invested in aquatic sciences, as announced in budget 2016. It's truly an historic investment. It's the largest investment in ocean science and freshwater aquatic biology in a generation. These resources are allowing the department's ocean and freshwater science capacity to grow substantially. We've now hired approximately 135 new scientists. I spoke to the committee about these people coming when I was here about a year ago; now they're here. Oceanographers and other highly skilled scientific staff are being hired right across the country. Approximately 29 of those are located in British Columbia, and a couple are in Yukon.

These new resources will increase the science capacity to address quite a number of the Cohen recommendations. For example, to respond to recommendations on Pacific salmon fish health, key action already under way is scientific research about whether farms are impacting wild salmon.

We've launched scientific studies to fill knowledge gaps, to inform standards and operational requirements, and to guide a variety of practices at hatcheries, as well as adjusting requirements on where salmon farms can be located.

Many of you will know that the Prime Minister, in November of last year, announced a $1.5-billion oceans protection plan, which has now, as you've pointed out, been added to my title, which is also good. It is being used to support the preservation and restoration of vulnerable marine ecosystems, many of which are in British Columbia and will be a target of support from the oceans protection plan.

Funding will be used to establish coastal zone management plans and to identify coastal restoration priorities. Restoration projects will engage indigenous people and communities, as well as a variety of environmental organizations and others with an interest in habitat conservation.

The Cohen report also makes a number of recommendations related specifically to habitat protection. When my minister, the Honourable Minister Leblanc, appeared at this committee to discuss main estimates a few weeks ago, he spoke of the urgency to make rapid progress on the review of the Fisheries Act.

A response to the recommendations made by this committee in your report, “Review of Changes made in 2012 to the Fisheries Act”, must be provided no later than June 30, and we're working to provide that response as quickly as possible.

The recommendations made by this committee are highly relevant in refining how we respond to those made by Justice Cohen.

Given the imminent timing of the release of the response to your broader report, I'd like to suggest that the committee might wish to hold discussion of the Cohen habitat recommendations until you also have our response to your report, if that meets your indulgence, as it will allow for a more comprehensive discussion of those aspects of the Cohen report.

An important theme in the Cohen report relates to the implementation of Canada's policy for the conservation of wild Pacific salmon. Last August, the minister announced that more work on a detailed wild salmon policy implementation plan would begin, starting with consultations with first nations, key stakeholders, and the general public in the fall of 2016.

I am pleased to say that over the last several months the team leading this work under Rebecca's leadership has travelled across B.C., as well as to Whitehorse, to meet with first nations and to hold public open houses to solicit input and feedback on the process and the content that should be included in the development of a detailed five-year wild Pacific salmon implementation plan. There was lots of interest in these consultations, and we received a large amount of quite significant feedback.

As a next step, we will be working with key partners, particularly but not only indigenous groups, to develop a first draft of an evergreen implementation plan that's aligned with departmental programs; is pragmatic in terms of costs and time frames; is clear about DFO's commitments and accountabilities; and is focused on better collaboration with first nations, with partners, and with stakeholders more generally to implement the policy. The intent is to have an initial draft of this implementation plan ready to embark on further broad consultations throughout the fall of 2017.

Much as Justice Cohen did not find a smoking gun to explain the two-decade decline in salmon returns, our response to his recommendations can't be defined in a single response. I think we all would like a nice, easy, simple solution where we just do one thing and the salmon recovers. That's simply not possible.

Instead, our approach has been formulated in a much more integrated manner that includes more science, better fisheries management and habitat protection decisions, and improved relations with indigenous communities, industry, conservation groups, and a variety of other players in wild salmon protection and recovery.

Another key point that has been made clear during our recent consultations is that the work has not been done, nor can it be done, by the department alone. In some cases, Justice Cohen has directed or specifically referred to other agencies in his recommendations, such as, of course, critically, the Province of British Columbia, as well as our colleagues in Environment and Climate Change Canada, and the suite of other stakeholders that I've mentioned before.

Clearly this must be truly un projet associé. We must work together to drive this process. Successful implementation of the policy will only be achieved if we do so together.

While not all the commission's recommendations were directed at Fisheries and Oceans Canada, as I've mentioned, we're certainly committed to working with our partners in a variety of contexts.

I would reiterate the department's commitment to sustaining and restoring Pacific salmon—Fraser River sockeye certainly, but Pacific salmon species more generally. It's not just about any one particular component or species of that broad suite. It's a long-term but necessary investment in renewing our marine natural capital and supporting conservation of ecosystems in a truly balanced way.

To support and track this effort, and in the spirit of transparency, we will be publishing another status report on these plans as we move forward, particularly highlighting the work that's been done with respect to each of the recommendations and the implementation of the policy more generally.

I focused these remarks on several of the significant recommendations. By all means, we're more than happy to take questions on any or all of them at any level of detail you may wish to go to.

We would like to just thank you once more for the time for being here today.

Rebecca, do you want to add anything?

9 a.m.

Rebecca Reid Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First I would just like to sincerely apologize for my late arrival. I was actually 45 minutes early to the wrong place. I do want to assure you that I take my appearance here very seriously, and I'm extremely sorry for missing the opportunity to provide those opening remarks.

I am the regional director general for the Pacific region. I have responsibility for implementation of the programs in B.C. and in the Yukon. I'm more than happy to speak to the committee about any questions you have.

Thank you.

9 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Ms. Lapointe do you want to say anything? Okay, that'll be during questions and comments.

Ms. Reid, it's not a problem. That happens quite a bit around here. Some would say I've made a career of showing up at the wrong place at the right time, but I digress.

I want to thank all of you for coming here, this of course being about the Fraser River. Being from Newfoundland and Labrador, I always like to say I'm from the beginning of the country. However, today I'm surrounded by a lot of British Columbians, so I'll have to say I'm from the end of the country.

Mr. Doherty, Mr. Arnold, Mr. Donnelly, Mr. Hardie, Ms. Goldsmith-Jones are here, and I forget to mention that Mr. Beech is with us as well, the parliamentary secretary. His riding is Burnaby North—Seymour.

We're opening up to questions. We're going to go to Mr. Hardie to start.

You have seven minutes, sir.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

We'll start with Ms. Goldsmith-Jones.

9 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Correction: Ms. Goldsmith-Jones, you have seven minutes, please.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Pam Goldsmith-Jones Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Thank you very much for including me today.

It's nice to see you, Rebecca. Thank you, Trevor, for that introduction.

The Cohen commission is really significant to those of us who live on the Pacific coast, so I appreciate that you've included me. I would like to start with aspects of the oceans protection plan that will help restore the wild Pacific salmon habitat—or will they?

Could you comment on that?

9 a.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Oceans Science and Oceans Protection Plan, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Trevor Swerdfager

I guess from our point of view, the answer in terms of how the oceans protection plan unfolds is really in two parts. If I may, I'll just be parochial for a minute. There's a substantial involvement of Transport Canada in the oceans protection plan, which will do a whole series of things with respect to conservation and stewardship of the shipping industry and marine safety. I won't touch on those elements here just now.

As to efforts that will lift, if you will, our implementation of the Cohen commission, I've been searching for quite a number of years for a good and easy way to say the opposite of “death by a thousand cuts”. Whatever is “success by a thousand somethings”, a large part of what we're doing in the oceans protection plan is of that nature. We will not see in the oceans protection plan implementation something that specifically targets wild salmon in the Fraser River estuary or system, but instead there are substantial investments in ocean science. We are creating a new coastal habitat restoration fund. There will be quite a series of investments in regional response planning for oil spill preparedness. The Canadian Coast Guard is going to substantially invest in marine safety. It's going to improve its infrastructure right up and down the coast. Together all of those activities, we would submit, will have a very substantial positive impact on salmon conservation and restoration, whilst you might not see a line item in the plan called “Fraser River sockeye implementation of Cohen commission” type of thing.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Pam Goldsmith-Jones Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Another significant piece of legislation, of course, is the update to the wild salmon policy. Could you comment on how that will help give effect to the Cohen recommendations?

9:05 a.m.

Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Rebecca Reid

When you look at the Cohen recommendations, you see that a number of the recommendations that Justice Cohen made related to the wild salmon policy and its implementation, and he strongly recommended the full implementation of that policy.

Last August when Minister LeBlanc made his announcement about the update to our response to the recommendations from the Cohen report, he spoke about the launch of consultations on the implementation of the wild salmon policy. The policy has been around for a number of years, but we felt it was time to review the implementation aspects of it. So over the winter we have been consulting with indigenous groups and commercial, recreational, and environmental groups to talk about their views and their role in the implementation of that policy. The intent now is that we've received a lot of good input. We're revising and updating the implementation plan, and our intention is to go back in the fall to consult further on the implementation of that plan and get final feedback. So it really is the moving forward of the wild salmon policy that's going to be a fundamental part of how we respond to Cohen.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Pam Goldsmith-Jones Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

One thing that Justice Cohen stated is:

that the potential harm posed to Fraser River sockeye salmon from salmon farms is serious.... Disease transfer occurs between wild and farmed fish, and I am satisfied that salmon farms along the sockeye migration route have the potential to introduce exotic diseases and to exacerbate endemic diseases...

I'm interested in your comments on his statement.

9:05 a.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Oceans Science and Oceans Protection Plan, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Trevor Swerdfager

I would turn first to the comment at the beginning, that he didn't, in the report, identify any single smoking gun that is causing these things. I think the phrasing of the excerpt you raised is very carefully chosen. What has been identified in here is clearly that there is a potential.

What the department has done, and is continuing to do, is invest quite substantially in the disease monitoring and surveillance program. We're working very hard to understand the mechanisms of disease in both a wild population and farm populations, and in the interactions. It is an extremely complex field and area of endeavour. There's often a desire to say simply, “Oh, there's complete consensus”, on any one side of this issue. We have not detected consensus and unanimity in the science community on any of these issues.

We are working very hard to ensure that our siting guidelines, our licensing provisions, and our regulatory activities with respect to the farms, our tracking of disease, and our working with the Canadian Food Inspection Agency are all aligned in such a way as to very much address this question and make sure that we continue to expand our understanding of how disease transmission and interaction works, and where necessary, take steps to make sure that, either from a regulatory point of view or an operation we're siting, we minimize any risk from disease.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Pam Goldsmith-Jones Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Finally, can you describe how budget 2017 will further help the recommendations in Cohen?

9:05 a.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Oceans Science and Oceans Protection Plan, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Trevor Swerdfager

As you probably know, a large part of budget 2017 is back in the oceans protection plan. There is going to be quite a substantial investment, particularly in science, resource management, and a number of things in the Coast Guard domain. I would also draw attention to investments that are going to be made in the areas of aquatic invasive species. We are advancing our work on marine protected areas and conservation in the marine space.

You'll detect a bit of a theme in our commentary today. We believe quite strongly that an awful lot of our programs broadly will positively affect salmon, and salmon habitat more generally, without having a line item on each one of them. With the budget 2017 initiatives in those areas, as well as some of our ongoing research on climate change, which Justice Cohen has also touched on, we'll have quite a positive contribution in all of these areas.

The only other point I would make is that, insofar as the new investments are concerned, there is quite a bit of innovative programming in there, particularly in the coastal restoration fund area, that we really think is going to allow us to much more explicitly target salmon habitat issues and needs in a way that we really haven't been able to do before. That alone is going to have quite a substantial....

It's not going to be revolutionary. I don't want to overstate it, but it really is going to change our game a little.