Thank you.
Evidence of meeting #59 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was recommendations.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #59 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was recommendations.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:05 a.m.
Liberal
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
On the timing of the Cohen commission, when did his work start, and when did it finish? I know the report was put out in 2012, but did his actual investigations end in 2009?
9:05 a.m.
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The terms of reference for Justice Cohen related to the returns of sockeye from the 2009 season. He took three years to undertake the investigation, and in 2012, he delivered the report.
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
He looked at 2009.
It was interesting, however, that the year after that, 2010, there was a record sockeye salmon run, and in 2014, there was an even larger run. That implies to me that the system is capable of producing large numbers of fish, based on those two very large runs. Is that a fair conclusion?
9:10 a.m.
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes, I think the conclusion you can draw is that there is incredible variability in the returns, and the reason for that is the point of the investigation.
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Well, of course, but sockeye has always been variable in the four-year cycle. Can we predict that the 2018 run is going to be fairly large, based on the size of the 2014 run?
9:10 a.m.
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes, that's what we would expect from a forecast perspective.
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Again, we have a system that's inherently variable. We've had in 2010 a record run; in 2014, it was even bigger; and in 2018, we anticipate a decent-sized run. Would you consider these to be natural fluctuations that have been going on since time immemorial?
9:10 a.m.
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
If you look at the history of sockeye returns in the Fraser River, you can see that there have been certain environmental effects that have caused considerable reduction. For example, the slide in Hell's Gate in the early 1900s had a devastating impact on the overall returns of sockeye, and so you will see cyclical differences between the populations.
As you have noted, the sockeye come back every four years. Every one of those years in between is a different population, and there will be different strengths, so you're going to see differences between one year and the next because you're looking at different populations of sockeye.
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Okay. It's obvious that year-class strength varies with environmental conditions. With walleye, for example, the higher the water, the better the survival, so we have natural fluctuations. I think these are important points because it's important to zero in on exactly what the problem is.
What is the problem with the Fraser River sockeye, then? What are some of the factors that have caused the decline in the low years, keeping in mind that we have these massive runs every four years? Is it international overfishing? Is it habitat loss? What is it?
9:10 a.m.
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Those questions are exactly what Justice Cohen investigated. He looked at a range of issues.
We can categorize the types of impacts in different ways. There are impacts on habitat, there are impacts upon fishing pressure, there is climate change and variability. There are a number of environmental and anthropogenic reasons for changes in the returns.
You need to look at these things in their entirety. As he said, the “no smoking gun” point really is valid; you have to look at the whole. You can't say there's one individual feature.
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Right, but you can turn that argument around and say that there are a number of features that came together in 2010 and 2014 to create those massive runs. You can flip that argument. I know the tendency in government is that everything is bad, we need more money, we need more research, and so on and so forth, but the fact that 2010 and 2014 occurred is reason for great optimism, isn't it?
9:10 a.m.
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I think it shows the inherent variability. There are a number of reasons for that strong year class. It has a lot to do with the survival in the marine environment as well, and so you need to look at things overall.
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Right.
I assume the sockeye end up in international waters at some point during their four years at sea. Is there an issue with illegal international fishing in international waters?
9:10 a.m.
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
There certainly are some conventions against those types of activities, which are monitored and enforced. You could consider that as one of the inputs into the overall impacts on fishing.
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
I know. I mentioned to the committee at our last meeting that there was an article in the New York Times on April 27 that talked about the Chinese fishing fleet, 2,600-strong, of big, modern vessels, all subsidized by the government, going around the globe—I'll try to be judicious with my words—fishing very heavily all over the world with no regulations whatsoever.
When these sockeye are in the open ocean, are they vulnerable to that kind of fishing?
9:15 a.m.
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
There would be an impact.
Do you want to add to that information, Sylvie?
9:15 a.m.
Sylvie Lapointe Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Certainly, as you mentioned, the Chinese fleet has expanded significantly, and that is a concern for a number of species across the Pacific.
As Rebecca mentioned, there is a convention in the north Pacific that bans drift netting for salmon, and we've had some good success in stopping some illegal fishing in that regard with our air surveillance.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
I don't have much time, but here is one quick question. What's the proportion of sockeye taken by commercial fishing, FSC fisheries, and the recreational fishery?
9:15 a.m.
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We have a salmon allocation policy that defines essentially that question. The first element—
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
I want the actual harvest, not what the allocation is. What's the actual harvest of the three fisheries?
9:15 a.m.
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It's going to vary by year, and so—
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
