Fisheries Committee on May 4th, 2017

[Rebecca Reid]

We certainly do sampling of the returning stocks, including some DNA analysis. Once the sockeye get back to the river though, we're pretty certain about their origin.

I think the question is really about the situation in the ocean, where there are mixes of stocks coming back, and we need to protect the weak ones and fish the strong ones, but we can't tell them apart because they all look alike. That's when timing and location are helpful to have with a DNA analysis or coded wire tags. There are other scientific techniques to understand what fish you have encountered. That work is something we do invest in. It is incredibly important.

I take your point about looking more in the rivers, but at that point, we're pretty comfortable about what fish are there.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Can you enlighten us a little bit about your work in conjunction with the British Columbia aquaculture program and its fish science lab in the Lower Mainland? How do you work with it? Aquaculture in B.C. is managed by the province but with DFO. How does that relationship work?

[Rebecca Reid]

Just to clarify, in fact, in British Columbia the federal government has managed aquaculture since a court case defined that as being in our jurisdiction. We do have the regulatory program within Fisheries and Oceans Canada. In fact, we do work with the province though, because it has the part of the job licensing out the locations, the farms, so we need to work very co-operatively with it.

The other way we work with it is that we have an MOU with it on the actual testing of fish. It has scientific labs that allow us to study fish health questions, and it conducts that analysis for us. There are a couple of places where we work very closely with it.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Mr. Donnelly, go ahead for five minutes, please.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to return to talk about habitat destruction, and then my next questions are on pollution and warming water recommendations.

Recommendation 53 talks about the department and Environment Canada co-operating on regular testing and monitoring of fresh and marine water for contaminants of emerging concern for endocrine-disrupting chemicals affecting Fraser River sockeye salmon.

Has this been done? Have there been any results so far on that?

[Trevor Swerdfager]

The collaborative testing program is in place. The commission talked about endocrine disruptors as a potential impact on reproductivity. The monitoring program we have in place has not detected any of the particular endocrine disruptors that were identified in the commission discussion. We are still continuing that monitoring program, because sometimes not finding anything doesn't mean it's not there but just that we haven't detected it.

That program in terms of a monitoring effort will continue. So far it has not identified a particular problem. I don't want it to sound like it has no result; it's just we haven't found it yet.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Fair enough.

Recommendation 74 is that the Government of Canada champion steps that would address the causes of climate change and warming waters, and recommendation 75 is that the commissioner of the environment and sustainable development report to the committee on the Cohen commission's recommendation implementation. Can you talk about those two recommendations and where we're at with those?

[Trevor Swerdfager]

Insofar as the activity around climate change is concerned, I'd say there are two elements. First, the Government of Canada has moved in a particular direction that I think you're very familiar with. A large part of our work is trying to understand and tease out the impacts of climate change. The recommendation particularly focuses on warming waters. One of the things the commission was plagued by, I guess, was that it was a snapshot of time. I was on the stand with the commissioner for six days myself, and I can clearly remember how the questions were very much about the previous year or the given year as opposed to a trend over time. Warming waters is a perfect example of that. What we're trying to do is understand water temperature trends over a period of time. Our ability to sample and understand the ocean is improving, going out, as I was mentioning earlier, but an awful lot of that work is continuing the research, again not tied back to specific actions.

With respect to the commissioner for the environment and sustainable development, I know she has been engaged in a number of things around climate change, but again, from the point of view of managing her program, she's had to address certain elements of it as opposed to the whole thing, as talked about in the commission recommendation.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

On warming waters, obviously if we find out that the waters are warming, we'll be looking at working with other departments or other agencies in the province—hydro, for instance, when we're talking about flows. Is that work happening?

[Trevor Swerdfager]

Yes.

Go ahead, Rebecca.

[Rebecca Reid]

DFO works very closely with BC Hydro. We have water use plans that describe and manage flow levels. That is an important element. In addition, we have a monitoring program that measures flows and temperatures as the salmon return. We will actually adjust our management efforts, our fishery, in response. If we find that temperatures are at critical levels, we will cut back fishing in response.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Finally, how will we know when it's successful—that water use plans are working, flows are increasing, our temperatures are decreasing, and we're starting to have increased salmon productivity? How will we determine or tell the success of our monitoring?

[Rebecca Reid]

I've talked about the escapement goals as a way of measuring outputs or results. I think achieving those goals for all the different systems is a valid way of measuring results.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

As I think you say, it's complex, too. It's always tough to measure success, but that's obviously the goal of the department.

[Rebecca Reid]

You need to define performance measures to know if you've been successful, and this is one that you can measure, that you can understand. It has direct cause and effect. I think it's a useful measure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Mr. Donnelly.

Thank you to our guests for coming here.

I also want to thank our special guest from the MP section. Thank you for being here as well. We appreciate that.

I have one thing to note before we go in camera.

Ms. Reid, I think there was a request from Mr. Sopuck and Mr. Arnold for sockeye harvesting numbers. Hopefully you'll be able to provide that information to the committee through the clerk. We can distribute it as long as it's in both official languages.

[Rebecca Reid]

One of the issues around that question is the time series. Every year the answer will be different. We can provide a time series of a decade, let's say, if that's acceptable.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

That's fine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you again, Ms. Reid.

Thank you, Mr. Swerdfager. It was good to see you again, sir.

Ms. Lapointe, thank you for joining us.

We'll break for a few minutes so that we can go in camera for committee business.

Thank you.

[Proceedings continue in camera]