Fisheries Committee on May 9th, 2017

[Robert Lewis-Manning]

That's an excellent question, and certainly the ferries are a fairly significant component of the overall sound profile of the southern B.C. coastal waters, largely because of the number of voyages they have. When you're looking at 9,000 to 10,000 deep-sea vessels, you're probably looking at 12,000 to 15,000 ferry transits. They're very involved in this process of measurement and they're also looking at mitigation options.

[Wayne Stetski, NDP, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

This is a study on getting the 10% marine protected areas. I'm going to throw it open. What do you think the shipping industry can do to help ensure protection of marine protected areas going forward?

[Robert Lewis-Manning]

I think the most important part is to understand the process and get involved early. Many of these processes are already under way. We've accelerated and increased our involvement in all of them across the board, whereas previously we may have been a little bit more passive.

[Wayne Stetski, NDP, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

What's the current situation around the release of ballast water? There are concerns that it could introduce alien or invasive species. What are the regulations on dumping water from ships coming from across the ocean?

[Robert Lewis-Manning]

The international convention will be implemented in September of this year. Canada is now in the process of developing its regulatory approach to implement that global regulation.

Shipowners throughout the world are installing technologies for treatment. There are going to be some bumps along the way, and I think the implementation phase is going to take upwards of a decade. It will be that long before vessels are fitted with technologies that really work well. It's a very complex technical subject.

[Don Krusel]

There are already stringent guidelines in place. The port authorities go out and ensure that everything is sealed and there have not been any water transfers within Canadian waters. Although there are changes taking place, there are still preventative measures required to ensure that there are no transfers of invasive species to Canadian waters.

[Wayne Stetski, NDP, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

I appreciate that.

My last question—and I like to think it will be complementary rather than competitive—is this: what do you think of the future of shipping out of Churchill, my hometown?

[Robert Lewis-Manning]

I get the zinger at the end. I think it's challenging. It will depend largely on the economics and to some degree the environmental conditions of going in and out of Churchill.

It's difficult to know. At the moment, in our industry commodity prices are at all-time lows, and we have too much capacity and tonnage. What that does is drive freight rates to all-time lows.

At the moment, I think it would be challenging in the short term, and the biggest change would be the increase in the freight rates. Clearly, we have lots of cargo for export in this country, which is the positive outlook.

[Don Krusel]

I'll just add that scale is everything. It's everything in any industry. That's why the ships are getting larger, and even in the Port of Prince Rupert we have a certain area of the port, a certain piece of property, that is becoming uneconomical because the shipping channels into it prohibit larger ships. Therefore, we see a day in the not too distant future when that particular area of the port will not be economical to use, and we will have to move other areas and land areas. I think the biggest challenge Churchill has is that it's on the wrong end of the evolution of shipping, in the sense that ships are getting larger, and that's going to be a challenge for them.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Robert Sopuck]

Thank you very much.

We have 10 minutes, colleagues, until bells. Here's what I propose. Let's give one question to each party, and that should take up to 10 minutes.

I'll start with the Liberals.

I'm not going to put the clock on, but you could make it as quick as you can so we can finish on time.

[Ken McDonald, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

It's probably not a question so much as a statement, I guess.

Thank you to both witnesses for appearing here today.

We've had a good number of witnesses come and present to us. I've got to say that I think today was probably the most interesting because both of you talked about the economy and how important it is in what you're doing. You are willing to work with all stakeholders, indigenous communities, and whatnot, and as well as on the environmental aspect. You've encompassed it all in what you're doing, and you have the desire to do more if necessary and to work with all government departments regardless of which department it is, or if they come together as one in solving issues and working with you. It looks at MPAs and environmental issues overall in your industry.

I just want to say thank you for that because it's been absolutely fantastic. I hope we hear a lot more from you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Robert Sopuck]

Well said, Mr. McDonald.

Now, Mr. Arnold.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

There's been a lot of interest in your ports on the west coast lately with the pipeline and LNG announcements that are taking place in that province. With the proposed increase in MPAs and the potential impact on shipping lanes and ports, do you think the investors still see those projects as attractive investments, or has there been a deterrent there?

[Don Krusel]

I don't think MPAs will have an impact. I think the global market conditions, the price of the commodities, and whether or not those projects are economically viable will have the biggest impact. That's really what's driving the timing of those projects, the international markets.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Robert Sopuck]

Mr. Stetski.

[Wayne Stetski, NDP, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

I just want to ask about the role of the shipping industry in getting to this 10% protected areas. I'm just curious if you have any thoughts on what you think government should be doing to help get to this 10% figure. You can put it in relation to your industry, if you like.

[Robert Lewis-Manning]

I think my previous comment about the need to establish the MPA and then develop the management plan will help to accelerate the process more than trying to have a perfect outcome, which may take a much longer period to manage before it's published. You'll probably hear from different stakeholders that they'd rather develop a perfect outcome and then implement it, rather than implement, and then develop a management strategy.

[Wayne Stetski, NDP, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

As with virtually all business, certainty is important to the shipping industry, looking ahead at marine protected areas.

[Robert Lewis-Manning]

Absolutely.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Robert Sopuck]

Well, colleagues, we have six minutes before the bells start, but we have two witnesses who are presenting us with extremely valuable testimony, so I'm just going to throw it open for anybody who has a last question or two.

Mr. Morrissey.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Yes, I'd like to go back to Mr. Manning. I like your recommendation, and you could expand on it a bit more, designating an MPA, but then at that time designating a period of time to get the regulatory regime right and in place for that MPA, rather than, as you point out, coming up with the right criteria and then forcing industry and all the commercial activity competing to adapt to it. Is that the most important?

[Robert Lewis-Manning]

I think it is, and I think often we don't hold stakeholders accountable enough. If you build a process where the stakeholders have to be accountable to objectives, then they'll spend the time to understand each other's perspectives and hopefully work towards those objectives.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

The stakeholders you're referring to would be the regulatory arms of the government.

[Robert Lewis-Manning]

They could be the regulatory arms. They could be non-governmental organizations, industry stakeholders, or indigenous communities.

It takes time for them to get to know each other, and that time is a very good investment, because you're going to have to manage that MPA for a long period of time.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

So you would not agree with what one witness commented, that the process has been too slow, that it should be speeded up.