Evidence of meeting #64 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was area.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Sharon Ehaloak  Executive Director, Nunavut Planning Commission
Jonathan Savoy  Manager of Implementation, Nunavut Planning Commission
Brian Clark  Environmental Advisor, Registered Professional Biologist, Pacific NorthWest LNG
Chris Wellstood  Director, Marine Operations and Security, Harbour Master, Vancouver Fraser Port Authority
Eli Enns  Regional Coordinator, North America, Indigenous Peoples' and Community Conserved Territories and Areas Consortium

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE

Each group, regardless of where they're at, whether they're east coast fishers, northern traditional hunters, or west coast first nations communities, all identify their areas as unique the moment they hear that these will be considered for an MPA. What I'm hearing from you is that an MPA must be managed.

10:05 a.m.

Executive Director, Nunavut Planning Commission

Sharon Ehaloak

It can be managed. It also—

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE

But if you're going to manage it, that means, then, that you've discounted any activity at all in the area.

10:05 a.m.

Executive Director, Nunavut Planning Commission

Sharon Ehaloak

Not necessarily.

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE

Oh. Explain. I'm curious.

10:05 a.m.

Executive Director, Nunavut Planning Commission

Sharon Ehaloak

For example....

Do you want to do the specifics, Jonathan, like the haul-outs and beluga calving grounds, or do you want me to?

10:05 a.m.

Manager of Implementation, Nunavut Planning Commission

Jonathan Savoy

In our conversations with communities in Nunavut, they have expressed great interest, for example, in commercial fisheries. For example, if a marine protected area is being established to manage a particular impact on marine mammals, there may be interest in nearby communities to pursue fisheries for subsistence, or potentially for commercial activities as well, within that marine protected area that is managing impacts, again, on marine examples, speaking hypothetically.

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE

Mr. Enns.

June 6th, 2017 / 10:10 a.m.

Regional Coordinator, North America, Indigenous Peoples' and Community Conserved Territories and Areas Consortium

Eli Enns

Yes, I think one thing you could look at is UNESCO's Man and the Biosphere Programme. Look at biosphere reserves. They have a core protected area and then zones of sustainable use. It's very similar to the approach to the Great Bear Rainforest, where you have conservancies and, emanating out from the conservancies, zones of ecosystem-based management approaches.

The no-go zone might be a sacred space, or it might be a particular part of that environment that has been highly taxed in previous years and you want to let it rebound. Emanating from that, you have these zones of sustainable use. I think the Man and the Biosphere Programme is very good. We need to pick it up in a more useful way.

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE

That's interesting. Thank you.

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you, Mr. Morrissey.

Mr. Donnelly, please, for three minutes.

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In terms of protecting the marine ecosystem, the committee has heard a lot about the concept of balance between economic growth and protecting the environment.

Mr. Enns, I'm going to go to your comment about the “dysfunctional world view”. The federal government has departments and those departments have processes. Those processes are not always connected to the international community, the provinces or territories, indigenous nations' processes, or to local civic regional processes. What would you recommend to the federal government when we're looking at the idea of protecting the marine ecosystems, with MPAs being one of the tools in the tool box, but recognizing this dysfunctional world view? Do you have a comment about how the federal government, with all its departments, could address this big picture world view that you're commenting on?

10:10 a.m.

Regional Coordinator, North America, Indigenous Peoples' and Community Conserved Territories and Areas Consortium

Eli Enns

Yes, the substructure underneath those various jurisdictions that aren't really communicating with each other very well is the Constitution.

For example, in Mi'kmaq country, they're apprehensive about marine protected areas. They have terrestrial protected areas and then they have marine protected areas. They're not communicating with each other. What they're looking at is creating a Mi'kmaq protected area. It will still be an MPA. It will essentially be like putting a blanket over both of them. The marine protected area and the terrestrial protected area need to communicate with each other.

We stood a totem pole up in Fish Lake, in Chilcotin. My uncle Tim Paul carved that totem pole. We're from Nuu-chah-nulth, where the fish are going out to the open ocean. In the Chilcotin the fish come up the Chilcotin River and they spawn there. They're completely interconnected.

What you have available to you is the Constitution, which could create the connective tissue between these disconnected phenomena.

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

It's probably a big challenge for the federal government to address the Constitution through the MPA process. It's an interesting suggestion, though.

You talked about terminal fisheries, with the weir and the gear types. Again, that's a fundamental change between how you see Canada operating its fishery and what you're recommending. That's another huge problem. Do you have a recommendation? The committee often asks for definitions of protection. Are you talking about no-take zones? Are we talking about improving the management within the ocean to protect either our fishery or nature? These are two slightly different values or goals.

Do you have a suggestion about gear types and management versus no-take protection areas for biodiversity and nature?

10:10 a.m.

Regional Coordinator, North America, Indigenous Peoples' and Community Conserved Territories and Areas Consortium

Eli Enns

I think we could stimulate the economy by investing in ecosystem restoration. Put a lot of money into ecosystem restoration and stand down on interception activities. I know that will be hard to swallow for a lot of people. I wouldn't go so far as to recommend a moratorium. The terminal fisheries you mentioned and what my grandmother Mary Hayes taught me about are very practical ways to go about starting to purposefully manage, river by river, the fisheries we have available. In the front end of that, I highly recommend a front-end investment in ecosystem restoration.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you very much, Mr. Enns and Mr. Donnelly.

As we normally do when we finish earlier than anticipated, I'm going to open the floor to quick questions. I'm not inviting you to do a Q and A or a discussion, but if you have points of clarification, quick questions that are on your mind, please feel free to ask them.

Do I have anybody for quick questions?

Mrs. Jordan, go ahead.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Mr. Clark, when we were in Prince Rupert one of the things we heard from the port authority was that the establishment of designated shipping lanes would be an added benefit, not only to the port but also to the marine protected area. Mr. Wellstood mentioned that they have designated shipping lanes in Vancouver. Do you see that as a benefit?

10:15 a.m.

Environmental Advisor, Registered Professional Biologist, Pacific NorthWest LNG

Brian Clark

I didn't know they weren't designated in Rupert. There are certainly routes that all the boats come in on. The pilots bring them in. Then there's the inland one for the ferries. I thought they were designated. I'm pretty sure they are, actually.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Mr. Wellstood, did you want to comment on that?

10:15 a.m.

Director, Marine Operations and Security, Harbour Master, Vancouver Fraser Port Authority

Chris Wellstood

The main shipping route into ports like Rupert and Vancouver are crucial to the economy of Canada, and you need to identify them and almost protect them. They could go hand in hand with marine protected areas. If you neglect them and you blanket marine protected areas over specific areas, then you can end up with situations where different interests could hamper the economic growth and the movement of trade in Canada.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you.

Mr. Hardie.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Enns, I have a question for you. Up north, when we were speaking with the Inuit in the Northwest Territories, our observation was that their fishing techniques were moderately traditional. They didn't have the great big fishing boats out there. They hunted their whales from rather small vessels.

I have two questions. In your first nation, do you use, if you like, modern fishing techniques and gear to catch both your commercial and your ceremonial food and social fish? Second, of all the fish you catch, what percentage is commercial versus the other?

10:15 a.m.

Regional Coordinator, North America, Indigenous Peoples' and Community Conserved Territories and Areas Consortium

Eli Enns

We have the “mosquito fleet” on the west coast, meaning small vessels. Our source-based fishery has become non-viable because of the clear-cut logging of the salmon-spawning grounds. That's the quick answer.

Our traditional way of fishing was made illegal for many years, and it just recently—

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

That's the weir.

10:15 a.m.

Regional Coordinator, North America, Indigenous Peoples' and Community Conserved Territories and Areas Consortium