Fisheries Committee on Sept. 26th, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Now we go to the opposition side for seven minutes.

Mr. Doherty.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our guests. I am a B.C. member of Parliament, so I know that it's early for you there.

I know both organizations very well, coming from the transportation industry formerly and having worked with both organizations in terms of the promotion of trade and tourism opportunities for Canada.

I'll direct my first question to you, Mr. Obermeyer. In your presentation, there were a few points that you would like this committee to consider in putting forward our study. On the first point, you said that “any decisions to designate a particular area must be based on factual scientific information”, and should not be the result of, I believe the words were, outside “pressure” by a particular community or by special interest groups that were working on “their own agenda”. I'm wondering if you can expand on that.

[Capt Kevin Obermeyer]

Yes, absolutely. Thank you.

The west coast seems to be a little different from coasts across the country. We have a lot of communities that are building up around coastal areas such as the southern Gulf Islands. As an example, we have had anchorages in those areas for over 50 years, but as the gentrification of these areas takes place and we have more population moving in, people are organizing themselves—in very well-organized groups—and they are opposed to certain activities taking place in what they call their “backyard”.

I understand where they're coming from, but what we need to do is ensure that if a group or a trade is moved out because of pressure from groups like these, it really needs to be based on scientific information and not just because they don't like to see a rusty ship sitting in their backyard.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Would you go as far as saying that you're seeing outside influence from other organizations or groups that are influencing perhaps the local community?

[Capt Kevin Obermeyer]

I think there's been quite a bit of literature on that. We do seem to have a number of NGOs who do receive outside funding. On the west coast we do often wonder what the agenda actually is behind these groups. It's well documented. It's not something that I just suddenly brought up. It's actually taking place—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I appreciate that. Thank you. Pardon the brevity, but I have a number of questions and I only have seven minutes.

This question is to both Ms. Spalding and Mr. Obermeyer, perhaps to Mr. Obermeyer first.

How familiar are you with the proposed legislation that is coming before the House, that being Bill C-55?

[Capt Kevin Obermeyer]

I have read it a number of times. It's not something that is part of my daily routine, because I operate under a different set of legislation, but I do keep abreast. I know what's in it.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Will that impact your operations, potentially?

[Capt Kevin Obermeyer]

Potentially, depending on how it is conducted, but we support the tenets of what is being proposed.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Okay.

Ms. Spalding, I pose the same question to you.

[Donna Spalding]

I'm not that familiar with it. I have read it. I have tried to assimilate it. My concern is that the ability is wide-sweeping. The result can be unpredictable, and thus we would be faced with changes that would not be beneficial to keeping the business here.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

My colleague Mr. Hardie mentioned this study being about the criteria of marine protected areas when considering marine protected areas. It is also about the process that we are looking at. We're studying the process and criteria when the government and stakeholders are considering marine protected areas. Would you say it is a fair comment that the process has been maybe a little fractured in this process overall?

[Donna Spalding]

I would agree with you wholly. We faced some five years ago an initiative by Parks for the southern Gulf Islands. We've seen an initiative for the Scott Islands. We see that there are several others on the board. These were followed by PNCIMA, and now we have the northern bioregion biodiversity. Somewhere along there, we didn't identify the whole area and then try to figure out what the individual areas within it were in relationship to how we continue to be who we are in British Columbia.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Okay. I really appreciate that comment.

I'll go to the other comment, and this again is to both of you.

Mr. Obermeyer, you mentioned, and I'm glad you did, domestic versus international, because our large ships follow the international shipping lines, and for domestic there is really no.... I mean, there are paths that they follow, but they're under a lot less strict guidance.

You both mentioned competition. Ms. Spalding, you noted that your carriers, and Mr. Obermeyer, you noted that your customers have opportunities to go south of the border. Canada always must remain a trading nation as well as have our tourism opportunities. Would you say that every consideration must be given in terms of, as we move forward, being very careful as to the steps we take, because both organizations and industries could choose to go elsewhere?

[Capt Kevin Obermeyer]

That would be a fair statement.

[Donna Spalding]

I believe we've already seen it. With regard to cruises, we used to have all of the cruises for Alaska going out of Vancouver. With the changes in ships and the ability to go further in the same amount of time, we've seen half of our business in Vancouver go to Seattle. As we move forward even more, and ships become larger and people's itineraries change a little bit, we're seeing even some of that go further south than Seattle—to San Francisco and Los Angeles.

So yes, they go outside, and then we lose it altogether.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

With the measures on the east coast that have been taken to date, are we seeing a reduction or stoppage in cruises, at this point?

[Donna Spalding]

Are you referring to the mandatory slowdown for the right whale?

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

That's correct.

[Donna Spalding]

Yes, we are. We've seen a number of ships that have had to change their itinerary and drop ports of call. They simply can't make it in the time they have for the cruise overall. We're seeing that. That's a difficulty with making itineraries. It's a difficulty in providing the itinerary that the guests on board have already paid for and are expecting.

The other thing is that it's unpredictable. We have ships and companies who are looking at it and saying what's going to happen next year, and we don't know. We need—

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Ms. Spalding. I'm sorry, but you can clarify your statements later, if you wish to add to that. There's no problem there.

Folks, the acronym “PNCIMA” has been thrown around quite a bit here. Just for the sake of clarification for anybody who doesn't know, either here in this room or listening through the vast reaches of our Internet, PNCIMA is the Pacific north coast integrated management area. It's 102,000 square kilometres. It is about conservation and management of human activities on the northwest coast of B.C.

That being said, we'll now go to Mr. Johns for seven minutes, please.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

Good morning to fellow British Columbians. I'm on your time zone; I just got in this morning too. Thanks for joining us today. It's great to see you and to hear your important feedback.

My question is going to be about marine debris and ocean plastics and the significant impact they're having not just on MPAs but on all coastal British Columbians and coastal people and our oceans. We know that the UN and the European Commission and the World Economic Forum all recognize the urgent need to radically design the way we use plastics. Certainly this has an impact on MPAs.

I'll start with you, Donna. Perhaps you could talk about the cruise industry and what actions you're taking to mitigate the single-use plastics and waste going into the important sensitive ecosystems that we cherish.

[Donna Spalding]

I've worked with the cruise industry for 20 years now, and the changes I have seen in much of their operations are hugely significant. They take steps as little as.... We look at aluminum beverage cans that usually come with a plastic ring around six cans. Cruise lines won't accept them that way. They simply don't purchase them that way.

We take people on ship tours, environmental ship tours. When we take them to the solid waste handling area, their eyes.... It's amazing what they suddenly realize. Everything that is collected on a cruise ship goes to the solid waste handling area. Every bag, every can, everything is sorted. Everything that can be recycled is recycled. Everything that can be offloaded is offloaded. No plastics go in the ocean.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Has there been any consideration given to going straight to an all-out ban, or for the industry to look at that, on single-use plastics? I know that resorts are doing that around the world, and certainly communities are doing that in coastal British Columbia.

[Donna Spalding]

I was surprised; I was on a ship tour as recently as last Saturday, and the coffee cup I was handed was made out of paper, not plastic.