Evidence of meeting #72 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was oceans.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Kevin Stringer  Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Jeff MacDonald  Director General, Oceans and Fisheries Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Philippe Morel  Assistant Deputy Minister, Aquatic Ecosystems Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

Mr. Doherty, you asked me question, but you keep interrupting the answer.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Mr. LeBlanc, you've managed to prove that you can rag the puck very well and use up all of our time with one question.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

Just as you're doing now.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

I have a few.

Minister, we have heard in testimony from indigenous and non-indigenous groups, stakeholders, NGOs, and scientists that the goals and objectives of this government's initiative on marine protected areas have not been communicated. The consultations have not been truly listened to and the feedback has not been adhered to. Would you agree with that?

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

No, I would not agree with that statement. If your previous government made a commitment in 2010 to reach 10% by 2020, we don't think it's unreasonable to get to half of that target in seven years of the 10.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Witness after witness has said the consultation process has been inadequate. Why are you refusing to engage with stakeholders? Furthermore, why are you refusing to listen to stakeholders?

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

I wouldn't agree with either of those premises. My parliamentary secretary and I, together with our department, spend considerable time talking to stakeholders right across the country.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

To your comment—

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

Mr. Doherty, you're interrupting again.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Minister, countless stakeholders, including indigenous groups—

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

Absolutely.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

—and territorial MLAs, have come forward to say that this government is moving forward without listening to the consultations that have been put forth.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

I wouldn't agree with that characterisation at all. We talk to these people. We listen to these people. We work with these people. I discussed marine protected areas with two of Canada's first ministers last week. It's part of the ongoing conversations we have all the time—

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Would you say they are offering misleading comments?

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

No, I don't think they are the ones offering the misleading comments.

I recognize that people may feel strongly about these issues, and we endeavour to work with all of them. We are always open, Mr. Doherty, to making adjustments where we can. We think we can grow the economy in a sustainable way and also meet the targets that Canadians expect of us.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Minister, you are moving forward on some aggressive targets. We all agree that we want to see our oceans protected. We have indigenous leaders who are saying they have not had the opportunity to sit before DFO and we have indigenous leaders who have said that when they have had the opportunity to sit with DFO, they are not being listened to. Minister, you're before us today testifying, now saying you believe that the consultations have been fruitful.

You also mentioned in your presentation to us the importance of consultation. In your presentation on Bill C-55 in the House, you said that once Bill C-55 is passed, you will announce the further consultation process. Is that not putting the cart before the horse? Should you not follow through with drafting appropriate legislation? If you truly believed that you wanted to work with the stakeholders and you wanted to get it right the first time, should that feedback not be included in Bill C-55 before we actually pass this legislation?

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

I would agree with that premise, Mr. Doherty. The feedback of stakeholders and indigenous groups is critical to getting this right. That's why every month and every week our department nationally, in regional offices, and me as minister, and our parliamentary secretary and others, have these ongoing conversations.

I would remind you that nobody should be surprised that Canada is moving toward these targets if seven years ago a previous Conservative government signed Canada up to those targets, if two years ago we made a very formal commitment to Canadians in an election platform that's still on our party's website that we would get to 5% by the end of this year, if the Prime Minister made that public in a mandate letter to me. I think people know we are serious and respect and appreciate that the government is serious, but in no way do I accept the false dichotomy that we can't meet those targets while at the same time working with and respecting the views of indigenous—

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Mr. Minister, would you say that your goals and objectives for your marine protected area initiative have been clearly defined and communicated?

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

Yes, I would.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Time?

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

You have 20 seconds.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

I'm good.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you, Mr. Doherty.

Go ahead, Mr. Cannings, for seven minutes, please.

9:15 a.m.

NDP

Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC

Thank you, Mr. Minister, for being here this morning and for your comments.

I think of marine protected areas, and perhaps I'm mistaken, as kind of the marine version of national parks and their conservation goals to preserve ecological integrity and biodiversity and endangered species. I'm wondering, to start with, if you agree that there are some activities that shouldn't happen in these protected areas, as they wouldn't happen on land. I'm thinking of things like petroleum and mineral exploration, wind farms, tidal power, open-net pen aquaculture, bottom trawling, waste dumping. Would you agree that those should simply be prohibited from MPAs?

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

Thank you, Mr. Cannings, for your question, and thank you for describing the way that I think a lot of Canadians, when they talk to me, think of marine protected areas. They think of them as sort of national parks in the ocean. The support for national parks, as we know, is extraordinary across the country. It's the way that many Canadians understand the concept of a marine protected area, so I don't disagree with that characterization at all. I share your view.

In my own personal view, I've said publicly that we should get to minimum standards in marine protected areas. Obviously, I have considerable concern around creating future marine protected areas and having an oil and gas industry operate in those particular areas. I understand that Canadians properly ask whether that's the appropriate concept of a marine protected area. That's why—and I've had this conversation with your colleague, Fin Donnelly—I think we need to have, quickly, a group of experts to look at what those minimum standards would be and to consult with a whole series of industries, many of which you enumerated.

I would welcome your views on who, perhaps, could serve in that group. I want us to have a quick and transparent process that would, I hope, build a consensus in Canada on what those minimum standards are. Things like bottom trawling are obviously, and can be...and I'm not a scientist, and that's why I think we should ask these people the best way to achieve it. I certainly share your objective and I'd welcome the best way to get—