Fisheries Committee on Nov. 7th, 2017

[Melanie Giffin]

In terms of the trap fishery you mean, the actual fishing process?

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Yes.

[Melanie Giffin]

Trap fisheries have normally been deemed relatively safe fisheries due to the fact that there's no dredging and no trawling. It's not a situation where they're dragging the traps along the bottom and harming the habitat. In general, it's been considered very safe for the environment and the habitat of the fishery.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Could you elaborate a bit more on the MSC marine sustainable certification process, which now endorses the lobster fishery and the crab fishery? If you were explaining it to a person who had no knowledge of the fishery, how would you define that and its impact on the environment and on a resource? Marine protected areas are all about protecting the natural resource or a fishery species that is in trouble. That's a big part of it. Could you comment on that?

[Ian MacPherson]

I'll answer that one. I believe you're referring to the Marine Stewardship Council MSC certification.

Basically, for other people in the room, that's a third party certification body that comes in to look at a specific fishery. I can only talk to lobster because our Prince Edward Island fishery is certified for lobster. Basically, they look at the number of traps, the length of the fishing season, the types of traps that are used, how the biomass is protected or sustained, and a whole number of things. They audit both the harvesting side and the processing side, and it is basically a consumer-driven certification in that the organization certifies that the fishery is, in fact, sustainable.

There are annual audits that are conducted, and then by every fifth year you have to be recertified. They initially grant a five-year certification, and then you would have to be recertified in year four to have it continue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

You have 30 seconds.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

From all the work that your organization has done in collaboration with fisheries, from your perspective, the lobster.... I know the crab fishery is extremely well regulated from a scientific perspective. Is there anything that you see on the horizon that would concern your organization from a stock perspective on these two lucrative fisheries?

[Ian MacPherson]

You can speak to that.

[Melanie Giffin]

In terms of the work and the effort that we put into keeping an eye on lobster fisheries specifically, we do things as an association, for instance, the lobster larval collectors, which we take part in every year from a science perspective, to make sure we have a better understanding of the abundance in the area. That's something we do in conjunction with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

We also are aware of the fact that DFO takes part in dive surveys as well, to take a look at the young-of-the-year lobster, and the smaller lobster that are just recruiting into the fishery. The management measures that we have in place for lobster are more strict and stringent than in other places in terms of a shorter fishing season, the regulations we have on sizes and buried females, and what's thrown back to ensure that the sustainability of the lobster fishery is maintained.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you very much, Mr. Morrissey.

Just a quick reminder to everybody, all of our guests are by video conference so I'd like to ask my colleagues if they have a question for a particular individual, please say that individual's name and then ask your question, because it's hard for them, obviously, to establish eye contact.

By the same token, to our guests from Prince Edward Island, if you wish to comment on a situation, please raise your hand so that the person asking the question can acknowledge you. It makes it a lot easier that way.

In the meantime, we're going to Mr. Doherty, for seven minutes please.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our guests.

Mr. MacPherson, you could not have spoken truer words in your opening comments than when you said more time is needed in terms of getting it right as we move forward with a piece of legislation that is going to impact so many people who live in our coastal communities and depend on fishing to support their families, to support others, and to support their communities.

Bill C-55 is being pushed through very quickly. On this side at least, we feel that adequate consultation has not been done. In your earlier comments, you were saying that the tight timelines to accomplish these goals make you feel that it is being rushed through.

We all agree that we should do whatever we can to conserve our waters and make sure the fish are there for the future. There's probably nobody else in this room who understands that more than the three there.

Bill C-55 will have an impact on our coastal communities. It will mean fisheries closures. The minister was before us last week and did state that there will be fisheries closures.

One of the things you commented on was that there was compensation. You were happy to see that there was compensation for displaced fishers. Did you know that Bill C-55 does not offer compensation for fishers? It only offers compensation for oil and gas companies if their certificate has been pulled.

[Ian MacPherson]

That's very interesting. When we go through this and look at it in terms of talking about an interest and about compensation, we think it's reasonable for us to be included—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

We agree with you 100%.

Our colleague Ms. Jordan asked the minister twice, I believe, and for sure once, and the answer came back that there was no compensation for our fishers, only for oil and gas companies.

[Ian MacPherson]

That's disconcerting.

I want to point out a couple of things that we feel we're up against in terms of timelines. We have a great working relationship with DFO on a number of files and a number of issues, but basically there was a commitment that there would be two of these letters a year. We checked our files. There have only been two in two years. That's a concern.

Then, in one of those newsletters, it does say that the network is to have the next set—so we'd be talking about the areas designated for 2020—done by 2019. We're just about through 2017 and that really only leaves two years to find that other 5%. I realize that it's not all going to be in Atlantic Canada, but that said, I think collectively we've all acknowledged that the next 5% is going to be a stiffer challenge for sure.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Are you also aware—and this is for the panel—that Bill C-55 gives powers of authority to the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, as well as the Minister of Natural Resources, as it pertains to MPAs and natural resources?

[Ian MacPherson]

No, we weren't aware of that, and I guess that does kind of loop back to only having a few days to review the actual legislation and get a presentation together.

Based on your earlier comment, certainly we're not excited about just oil and gas being compensated if there is some displacement in a fishing area. I think that needs to be looked at by the committee. These are all things.... As I mentioned, we are a little concerned about the Governor in Council. It appears that body is going to be given additional powers. I'm not totally up to speed on how the legislative process goes, but it does say in the one set of documents that it is looking at increasing the Governor in Council.... I'm not sure of those exact parameters either, and what that entails.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Bill C-55 has been described by the minister, and indeed the government, as a way to fast-forward our marine protected areas program. We are pushing the government to make sure we get this right. When you are dealing with people's lives and livelihoods, you should be getting it right. Would you agree that if it takes seven years or nine years to get it right, we should be doing what we need to do to make sure that it is right and that any negative impacts are mitigated?

[Ian MacPherson]

You're absolutely right. We are talking about people's livelihoods. We have a world-class fishery. One of my last comments in our opening statements was around the whole right whale situation and how that has landed out of nowhere on DFO, fishing organizations, and the federal government. We commend DFO, because we have a good process going, and we hope it continues. The minister is hosting a round table on Thursday that we'll be attending.

However, at the end of the day, these are the kinds of dramatic changes that can happen. There needs to be proper consultation, because once these changes are in place, I don't think it's the intent to switch them on and off. We want to make sure we get this right.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Would you consider the consultations more as information sessions than information-gathering sessions?

[Melanie Giffin]

The one real consultation session we had was great and interactive, and our fishers gave an indication of where they fish around the island. Anything we've had since then has all been information sessions more than consultations, in all honesty.

To touch on the seven years that was mentioned and a way to fast-forward the MPA program, this was brought up at a previous round table I attended in Boston. If it takes seven years to put an MPA in place and to make sure environmental assessments are done, the habitat and species are not going to be affected in a negative way—it's going to make a positive impact. I'm not sure what is going to be a shortcut.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Ms. Giffin. I have to cut it right there.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Thank you for your testimony.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Mr. Donnelly, you have seven minutes, please.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to all our witnesses for being here today, and for providing this testimony.

Mr. MacPherson, I want to thank you for putting your presentation together. I’m very sorry to hear that you were so rushed in preparing for this meeting. Hopefully, this standing committee has heard your request for more time in the future and will heed your advice for future witnesses. I appreciate your comments and hope the committee will take them to heart.

[Ian MacPherson]

Thank you very much. It's in the interest of being able to do proper research and come fully prepared. The request was made with all due respect to the committee, for sure.