Evidence of meeting #77 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was oceans.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:15 a.m.
Vice-President, Arctic Program, World Wildlife Fund-Canada
Premier McLeod, from the Northwest Territories, has made those remarks. In the case of oil and gas and the moratorium that is there, the price of oil and gas has had a bigger impact than anything else. Arctic oil and gas is break-even at $150 a barrel. We're a long way from that.
I do believe that there is a point of equity between urban and rural and the rest, and that we need to look at. However—
9:15 a.m.
Vice-President, Arctic Program, World Wildlife Fund-Canada
How do we balance that?
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
How do we balance opportunity?
We have Mr. Helin that has a community of 3,800 where the opportunities are few and far between. We have coastal communities where we have traditional fisheries and economies that are both non-first nations and first nations.
How do we balance that, as we move forward?
9:15 a.m.
Vice-President, Arctic Program, World Wildlife Fund-Canada
It's interesting because in terms of balance, of course, it's in the eye of the beholder. At the recent Nunavut land use planning hearing in Iqaluit, one group representing Métis said that their balance is conservation. The two are not necessarily compatible. It really depends on each case. It depends on meaningful dialogue. These are complex questions that I can't give you a ready set....
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Okay.
Mr. Helin, I ask the same question of you.
How do we balance that?
9:15 a.m.
Mayor, Lax Kw'alaams Band
I think you have to look at every proposed project individually.
Our people would not agree with something that we thought would harm our environment. That's the last thing we want to do. We want it there for generations to come.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Would you say that the final word should come from those who truly have a stake at the opportunities, so that, whether it's fishing as well as exploration, those who are actually on the ground should have the final say?
9:15 a.m.
Mayor, Lax Kw'alaams Band
I don't know if it's the final say, but yes, I think in conjunction with experts that can give us good advice.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
The committee has not, no.
The Canadian MPA study was when we met with the bands.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
How many committee meetings have we dedicated to Bill C-55?
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
This is now our third one, technically, because we had the two halves. Remember?
9:20 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
We haven't travelled to any coasts, any coastal communities, and we're dedicating five committee meetings to Bill C-55?
9:20 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Putting the consultation in context, Mr. Crowley, you talked about minimum standards. You've submitted recommendations here, and I'm wondering. You mentioned in your testimony a lack of minimum standards in Bill C-55, which you feel is a serious shortfall. I think this is tricky because you're saying you support Bill C-55, you support the intention to speed up the process, but at the same time there is an issue of minimum standards, which obviously requires consultation when you're talking about impacting the types of things you've identified.
Could you talk a little more about how you strike that balance of enough consultation, yet saying these are harmful activities we want to exclude in a marine protected area?
9:20 a.m.
Vice-President, Arctic Program, World Wildlife Fund-Canada
Yes. I think looking to the terrestrial cousin is important. We have these standards set, and the national park people do not expect to see an oil rig or heavy industrial activity. On many of these things absolutely there needs to be consultation. However, we're not starting from ground zero on them.
That these concepts, the marine protected areas, are created and a network is created to ensure that our oceans are replenished, to ensure that communities can continue enjoying the fruit of the ocean, I don't know how controversial that is. In its application in individual cases, absolutely it's controversial and it can be in certain cases and that requires an appropriate consultation, deep consultation, particularly with indigenous communities. Is that helpful?
9:20 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Yes. I think this is probably what the government is struggling with, and what I know the committee struggles with. How do you strike that balance? How do you look at protecting Canada's oceans? At the same time, how do you enable or allow economic activity to happen for coastal communities, for other communities in Canada?
It's obvious to me that if you look over the past 150 years anyway, and you see how we've been doing, I think there's a reason we need to protect our oceans because we haven't been doing a good job of that in the past. We're now looking for different ways to do that.
I guess more specifically, and the consultation is important, but in the aims of the government in Bill C-55 we still need to set a limit of how much time we consult or else we won't make decisions and continue.
You've identified a number of things, like bottom trawling, oil and gas and mineral exploration and development, open-net pen aquaculture, tidal power development, and wind farms. Does WWF Canada have expertise or can you cite evidence, documents, or studies that back up how these are harmful activities to the ocean and the ocean marine ecosystem?
9:20 a.m.
Vice-President, Arctic Program, World Wildlife Fund-Canada
Yes. To put this in context, I would start by saying that the government's goal of 10% protection is not 100% protection of the oceans, although we certainly should be planning carefully in 100% of our oceans. When it comes to marine protected areas and the goal of the government currently at 10%, let's keep in mind that these are areas that are important for a variety of reasons, including ecological replenishment. It's important to have these refugia in some cases.
We have based our positions on scientific evidence. For instance, we know of the impacts of bottom trawling on the ecosystem. If the goal is to reduce the threat to that ecosystem, then bottom trawling is unlikely to be compatible.
9:25 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Mayor Helin, could you also talk a little bit about consultation and what an appropriate consultation would look like with your nation, with your band?