Evidence of meeting #79 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-55.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Robert C. McLeod  Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Government of the Northwest Territories
Christina Burridge  Executive Director, BC Seafood Alliance
Paul Kariya  Senior Policy Advisor, Coastal First Nations Great Bear Initiative

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Finally, we can start this meeting. I want to extend our sincere apologies to our guests, not just the two in front of us, but the two to follow as well.

This is what we're going to do, colleagues. I understand that some of you have to leave. We do have votes again tonight at approximately 6:45. How about we do one hour, from 5:00 to 6:00 Eastern Standard Time?

I know you can't stay, but there won't be any votes or anything of that nature. I'll make sure it's comfortable.

I would just like to hear from the other group as well. I think this is the opportunity. We can afford a half an hour for each group to do their 10 minutes and then we do 20 minutes of questioning. We can divvy it up seven, seven, seven, or at least close to that, and then start into the next one. We're starting shortly before five.

Mel, do you have something to say?

5 p.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Mr. Chair, yes, I have to leave at 5:30 for a previous commitment. I believe Mr. Miller does as well, so we would not be able to get equal questioning time in.

I'm happy to stay. I would certainly love to hear from our witnesses, but if we're going to try to be—

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

The problem with that is we need one Conservative to be present. Do you know anyone who can get here?

5 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

I can stay for some of it.

What I was going to suggest, Mr. Chair, is that we hear from all of our witnesses. At least we hear their testimony. It's not our fault the votes happened, but I think to be considerate to our presenters, we should let them all speak, and with whatever time we have afterward, we'll ask questions. That is my suggestion.

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Yes, I understand that, but I'm just trying to make lemonade out of the lemons we've been served because, quite frankly, the only thing I disagree with is the fact that it's no fault of our own. Votes are caused by all parliamentarians. Therefore, as a parliamentarian, and not as a party person but as a parliamentarian, I'm trying to accommodate our guests. If we can get 5:30 to 6:00 in, apparently we're not going to have the two of you, which causes me some concern.

Just a minute. We need one member from the opposition, which is basically what the rule is. My apologies; I misread it. So we have Mr. Stetski here, and we can do that. I apologize to my Conservative colleagues.

Mr. Miller, go ahead.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

I can stay for some of it, Mr. Chair.

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

I would truly appreciate it if you could—

5 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

I'll stay for as long as I can.

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

—stay as long as you can.

With the indulgence of other members, can I just go against the standing orders for a moment and give Larry the floor to begin with for his seven minutes?

5 p.m.

Liberal

Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE

Sure.

5 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you, folks. I really appreciate that.

In saying that, we always introduce and identify our guests. We have a special guest today. From the beautiful riding of the Northwest Territories we have Mr. Michael McLeod with us. Thank you very much, MP Michael McLeod, for being here.

We also have another McLeod joining us by video conference. First of all, Minister McLeod, I want to say thank you for your patience, and to Mr. Dragon as well.

Could you please start with your statement for up to 10 minutes, and then we'll have some quick questions.

Can you hear me, first of all?

5 p.m.

Robert C. McLeod Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Government of the Northwest Territories

Yes, we can.

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

And we can certainly hear you.

Please begin.

5 p.m.

Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Government of the Northwest Territories

Robert C. McLeod

Thank you for the time.

Good day to our MP, Michael McLeod.

I'm here today to bring to your attention the Government of the Northwest Territories' concerns with Bill C-55, an act to amend the Oceans Act and the Canada Petroleum Resources Act. In making this presentation, I will be sharing with you some of the recent history of the Northwest Territories so that you can hopefully understand both our specific concerns and the cumulative impact of federal actions, including Bill C-55, on the people in the Northwest Territories.

The Government of the Northwest Territories supports self-determination of indigenous people and indigenous government, and has developed a public government with self-government in mind. We have been at the negotiating table with Canada and indigenous governments from the territories for many years negotiating land claims and self-government.

Of particular interest to this intervention is the Inuvialuit Final Agreement, which created the Inuvialuit settlement region and was signed by Canada, the Inuvialuit, Northwest Territories, and Yukon in 1984. The signature of the current Prime Minister's father is on that agreement. I'm also a beneficiary of the Inuvialuit Final Agreement.

On April 1, 2014, the Government of Canada and the Government of the Northwest Territories brought into force the Northwest Territories Land and Resources Devolution Agreement. This agreement was negotiated over many years, and finally gave the Government of the Northwest Territories responsibility for onshore land, water, and resource management. Prior to our 2014 devolution, the federal government made all resource management decisions in the territory.

For the people of the Northwest Territories and the nine indigenous governments that signed onto the agreement, devolution was a game-changer. Devolution meant that decisions about the Northwest Territories land, water, and resources would finally be made in the Northwest Territories. This is something the vast majority of Canadians take for granted. The engagement of first nations, Inuit, and Métis governments, and inclusion of resource revenue sharing was historic.

What does this have to do with Bill C-55? Section 3.20 of the devolution agreement contains a commitment for Canada, the GNWT, and the participation of the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation to commence negotiations for the management of oil and gas resources in the Beaufort Sea and other northern offshore areas. This commitment includes a negotiation of resource revenue sharing resulting from offshore oil and gas development.

Negotiations were to start 60 days from the signing of the devolution agreement, which occurred on June 23, 2013. That means the negotiations should have begun no later than August 23, 2013. Despite repeated requests from both the GNWT and the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation, the federal government has not been willing to sit down to negotiate this critical agreement.

On December 20, 2016, the Prime Minister called my premier 20 minutes before announcing that all Arctic Canadian waters were indefinitely off limits to future offshore oil and gas licensing. “Indefinite” was the word the Prime Minister used, and neither the yet-to-be negotiated interests of the Government of the Northwest Territories nor the rights of Inuvialuit were taken into consideration prior to that decision being made.

This is despite other provisions in a separate agreement included in the devolution agreement, and signed by then Minister Valcourt, Premier McLeod, and Nellie Cournoyea, chair and CEO of the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation, that states the parties will share information around terms and conditions of licences as well as any other petroleum resource management matter that the parties consider appropriate to share. Surely, an indefinite moratorium fits the description of appropriate information to share through our trilateral committee. It concerns us greatly as a government that despite a clear commitment to negotiate the management of the offshore, including resource revenues, Canada made a unilateral decision to shut down development in that area.

Yes, the announcement also said there would be a five-year scientific review, but almost one year later, we still don't know exactly what will be included in that review. In addition, as a direct result of the federal government's refusal to begin negotiations on the offshore, the NWT has no clear role in the review of a decision that clearly impacts the livelihood of our people.

Now Bill C-55 is on our lap, proposed legislation that will once again impact the offshore.

Bill C-55 has made its way through second reading in the House of Commons and contains a significant increase in ministerial power and authority, and yet again, the GNWT was not consulted on its development. Specifically, we are very concerned with the amended ability for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans to designate marine protected areas by order and without consultation. We are also concerned that the amended bill will give the appropriate minister under the Canada Petroleum Resources Act the ability to simply cancel an oil or gas interest in an area that may be designated as a marine protected area.

Let me recap for you. The federal government is still refusing to fulfill its commitment to come to the table to negotiate the management of oil and gas resources in the Beaufort Sea with the GNWT and the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation. While actively avoiding this commitment, the Prime Minister announced an indefinite moratorium on Beaufort and is creating a process to review this moratorium without allowing the GNWT to define its jurisdictional interest and significant increases in federal ministerial authority that have been added to both the Oceans Act and the Canadian Petroleum Resources Act in Bill C-55, which is making its way through parliamentary review again without any consultation with the GNWT. This is being done in the absence of any clear federal communication of the revision for the Arctic. Although the Prime Minister announced the development of an Arctic policy framework at the same time as he announced the moratorium, the federal government has not given the policy framework the same momentum as Bill C-55. We are involved in the Arctic policy framework and look forward to seeing our priorities reflected in it.

We think there's a very real possibility that prior to a clear statement of Canada's vision for the Arctic and prior to the required consultation, Bill C-55 will become the law of the land. Similar to our position prior to devolution, we are being relegated as bystanders in decisions that affect the very livelihood of our communities. I do not want to give the impression that the GNWT does not support conservation. Many of our residents continue to pursue traditional lifestyles. In many cases hunting, trapping, and fishing are a predominant source of income and food for NWT households.

Conservation is integral to our way of life in the NWT. We also live daily with the legacy of decision-making far from home prior to today's robust regulatory regime. The NWT is home to one of Canada's most toxic waste sites. If the current contents of Giant mine were to enter the water system, there is sufficient arsenic there to kill the entire world population 10 times over. For that reason the GNWT is on track to surpass the 17% Canada target 1 conservation target for 2020. Once the planning and decision-making processes are completed, the Northwest Territories conservation network will extend from 13.5%, which is its current size, to 20.4% of the territory. The NWT offshore is also currently home to two marine protected areas, the Tarium Niryutait and Anguniaqvia. I was a beneficiary of the Inuvialuit Final Agreement. Protected areas and the marine portion of our territorial protected areas cover about 5,300 square kilometres of the Inuvialuit settlement region.

In addition to conservation, it is important that NWT residents are provided with every opportunity to enjoy a good quality of life. Every northerner deserves the opportunity to experience the wellness and strength of community that people equate with Canada and with being Canadian. The Government of the Northwest Territories has a clear vision of what is needed to achieve this bright future for the people of the Northwest Territories, but the reality is that right now, this is not the experience of indigenous people living in NWT's remote communities. The Government of the Northwest Territories is working to change this. We are working to lower the cost of living and increase community wellness and quality of life in each of our communities. The key to achieving this vision is sustainable development through economic diversification and developing our many natural resources that can be used to drive the global green economy.

We understand that opportunity and personal and community wellness are derived from education attainment and good jobs, which are integral aspects of reconciliation. Achieving our vision through sustainable economic development will create these opportunities in each of our communities. We need a strong federal partner who wants to be part of creating this positive future for all of our remote communities in the NWT, including the infrastructure that most of the rest of Canada takes for granted.

For centuries, people have been coming north looking to take advantage of its natural resources, and northerners have had to adapt to these demands. At one time it was for whale oil and fur. Right now it is for diamonds. Our people had hoped that oil and gas would be part of that story too, but it appears that southern tastes and priorities have changed again. As a result, northerners are being asked to sacrifice their hopes for good jobs and a strong economy yet another time because of decisions made elsewhere.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Minister McLeod, if I could just interrupt you for one second, we're quickly running out of time.

If I could get you to sum up in about 30 seconds or so, you could work your comments into the answers to questions, if you feel you've missed something.

5:10 p.m.

Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Government of the Northwest Territories

Robert C. McLeod

In summary, for your purposes today, I need to leave you with two thoughts for your consideration.

First, the GNWT has concerns with Bill C-55 as drafted, specifically the increase in unilateral authorities given to federal ministers.

Second, the NWT, although cold and remote, is a real place with 44,000 people living in it in 33 communities, who right now are living with the cumulative impacts of your decisions. It is easy to say from Ottawa that there has not been real economic impact from this decision because your budgets are on a scale that doesn't show the economic impact that even a $7.2-million decrease in activity, as the federal government has described, can have in a region like the Beaufort Delta.

It is easy from where you are to miss the importance residents place on the money coming from outside of government. You may not feel it there, but the unfulfilled federal commitment to negotiate responsibility for the offshore with the Government of the Northwest Territories and the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation, the imposition of a moratorium, and Bill C-55 arriving in Parliament without our consultation are all connected. They have created a cascade of mistrust that we are asking you to recognize and begin to repair.

I'll stop there. That was a little more than 30 seconds. I have a bit more, but I think we'll just go—

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

No, I understand. We're all a bit rushed today given the circumstances that we're under.

I was just reading your statement to us. You had a couple recommendations near the end. Is that correct?

5:15 p.m.

Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Government of the Northwest Territories

Robert C. McLeod

Yes, I did.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Could you please read those, if you wish?

5:15 p.m.

Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Government of the Northwest Territories

Robert C. McLeod

I can do that.

I am asking you today to take the first step in beginning to repair what could and should be a strong relationship between the federal government and the Government of the Northwest Territories. This step is to ensure that there is northern indigenous involvement in key decisions that impact northern lives, including traditional activities. This action supports reconciliation and shows respect for both the Government of the Northwest Territories and existing agreements with indigenous peoples in the NWT. Please uphold this country's strong commitment to consultation, amend Bill C-55 to ensure that federal ministers do not have the unilateral authority to make decisions about Canada's marine environment without consultation, and ensure that there's proper consultation processes for Bill C-55.

Thank you very much.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to coach you along there. It's just that the copy of your speech you gave us is only in one language, so I can't distribute it to the members. I just thought that the last part with the recommendations was something you'd want to include. Otherwise, without your saying them at this committee, they wouldn't be included.

We're going to go to questions. I'm going to use my own discretion on timing; I hope you don't mind. I know there are seven minutes, but I'm going to shave it just a little bit towards five if that's okay with everyone.

Can I have everyone's permission to circumvent our own standing orders?

Okay, Ken Hardie, you have five minutes, please.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister McLeod.

The status of the offshore moratorium on oil and gas is that it remains. Maybe you can enlighten me as to how long that moratorium is supposed to be in place.

5:15 p.m.

Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Government of the Northwest Territories

Robert C. McLeod

The moratorium is supposed to be in place for five years, and I think we are a year and a half into it right now.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Bill C-55 gives the minister discretion to basically put in place an interim marine protected area, have a look at it for five years, and then decide whether it's going to go ahead.

Our understanding—and I want to see if it matches your understanding—is that within those five years, the activities that are currently under way would continue. In other words, even though there might ultimately be discussions about no-take zones, etc., if there are activities currently under way, they would continue within that five-year interim period.

Is that your understanding?