Evidence of meeting #80 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mpas.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:30 a.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Are any members of either of your nations currently commercial fishing licence or quota holders, or do the bands themselves hold quota?
10:30 a.m.
President, Council of the Haida Nation
Maybe I'll start this one.
We have a few licences that are managed by the Haida Nation. In terms of our individual fishers, it has been a very tragic story. The north side of Haida Gwaii was predominantly a fishing community and fishing nation, and we've been displaced from the industry for probably 20 or 30 years now.
We can't change who we are. People still use the water, so there still are ambitions to get back on the water and train and increase the capacity for a whole new generation of fishers. We're trying to change that whole story that displaced us from the industry.
There is very little ownership of licences within the Haida Nation at this point.
10:30 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Yes, you're out of time. Did you want Chief Slett to quickly respond to that?
10:30 a.m.
Conservative
10:30 a.m.
Liberal
10:30 a.m.
NDP
Wayne Stetski NDP Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Thank you.
I've been involved in conservation in provincial parks, in fish and wildlife management in British Columbia, for 37 years, and I want to start by thanking you and the other first nations for your leadership around conservation in many aspects of British Columbia, whether it's the Ktunaxa and Jumbo in my riding of Kootenay—Columbia, the protection of Moresby Island, the creation of the co-management agreement for Gwaii Haanas, or the Great Bear Rainforest and the fact that indigenous guardians are the people on the ground who are making sure that conservation continues there. I really want to start with a sincere thank you to both of you.
Now, to go to my question, there's a 2014 report, done by a Mr. Edgar, regarding marine protected areas that concluded that many marine protected areas around the world can't be ecologically distinguished from areas that are fished. It found that 79% of the global sample of protected areas weren't meeting thresholds for basic management. They lacked staff and funding to accomplish effective monitoring and enforcement. While it may sound good that we're establishing marine protected areas in keeping with our international commitment, without proper resources, these designations quite frankly could be meaningless.
As we expand the number of marine protected areas and perhaps even in the ones that you're already involved in, what resource will be required to help enforce marine protected area regulations within your territories? In your opinion, should Bill C-55 be amended to provide explicit options for the delegation of monitoring and enforcement authority to indigenous guardians in those areas?
I'd like both of you to respond.
10:30 a.m.
Chief Councillor, Heiltsuk Tribal Council
Great.
Definitely in our community we have our guardian watchmen work along with our coastal first nation neighbours. To enforce these MPAs and make them fully realized in our traditional territories, we need to work and have our indigenous guardian watchmen have that enforcement power. We've been doing a lot of work in terms of providing training to our watchmen, but it would require more resources as well to implement that in a real, meaningful way.
10:35 a.m.
President, Council of the Haida Nation
The lack of resources to really do the job is absolutely a concern. We've been managing our protected areas for quite some time now, and you're right that there aren't a lot of resources to actually get out there and do the job.
What needs to be realized is that the first nations are going to do the job anyway. We find a way to allocate our own-sourced resources. That's the balance that we don't really hear in the Canadian context. You hear about first nations that want to protect their territories and conserve them, but what actually happens on the ground here is that we're trying to find that balance and we realize that we do need resources to do the job.
For the last 20 years, that has been our goal, to identify through our own-sourced revenues the resources needed to actually do the job. Sgaan Kinghlas-Bowie Seamount is very far offshore. In terms of getting out there to do the monitoring, the science, and all the work required to actually manage a protected area, we can't say that because the resources aren't there we're not going to do the job, so it's up to us to identify those resources.
It has been challenging, but you have to get creative with it. If there were amendments to the bill to identify that resources should be allocated to actually fulfill the job requirements for marine protected areas, then absolutely we would support that.
10:35 a.m.
NDP
Wayne Stetski NDP Kootenay—Columbia, BC
What do you think the Department of Fisheries and Oceans needs to do differently, or better, to make marine conservation areas successful on your part of the coast?
10:35 a.m.
President, Council of the Haida Nation
I really believe it boils down to leaning on us. This whole co-operative management approach that we've taken is supposed to be two parties coming together, but rely on the local knowledge. Rely on the local evidence that we've been compiling.
The Haida Nation, because we have a title case, has been basically compiling evidence for the last 15 years to prove title. What's in that is this unbelievable history from our elders, which is being captured in depositions of their oral history. I think that relying on those who understand it is the key for us.
10:35 a.m.
Chief Councillor, Heiltsuk Tribal Council
Certainly the resources to adequately implement an indigenous guardian watchman program with the enforcement powers....
Our communities have also been talking about the indigenous-led marine response centre capacity and our communities have been looking at different ways to improve upon that, so that's another area to be considered.
10:35 a.m.
NDP
Wayne Stetski NDP Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Are indigenous marine protected areas a pathway to reconciliation, which is one of the priorities of the government today?
Chief, you can start.
10:35 a.m.
Chief Councillor, Heiltsuk Tribal Council
Yes. If we can do them collectively, collaboratively, as we set out in our statements here today, and in our briefs, in collaboration with us, and not for us, it would be definitely a way forward.
10:35 a.m.
President, Council of the Haida Nation
Yes. Reconciliation, to us, is interpreted as co-existence, so I think that's what we're trying to move forward with, this co-existence model about how we can all do it together, and it's really about recognizing each other's authority. I think it's been imposed on us historically, but over the course of the last 40 years of our Haida Nation, we are reconciling differences. There are portions of Haida Gwaii where we are making a difference and it's about acknowledging each other as equals, and I think that's what reconciliation is truly about.
10:35 a.m.
NDP
Wayne Stetski NDP Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Thank you, and again, thank you for your leadership over the centuries.
10:35 a.m.
Liberal
Pat Finnigan Liberal Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to both chiefs for being here this morning with us.
Maybe as a follow-up to one of the questions that was asked earlier, we're talking about consulting with the first nations, and it's never enough. We've heard that throughout the testimony in this study. We know there needs to be an improvement on that side.
With the minister here, how would you rate the consultation compared with the past? Are we going in the right direction, in other words?
I would appreciate both of you answering that question.
10:35 a.m.
President, Council of the Haida Nation
Yes, I believe it's improving. I think consultation requires meaningful consultation, and I think Chief Slett has talked about it. I like that example where you check your box and then make your decision anyway, but I believe it's going the right way. I think we need a lot more time in terms of how much time we're provided to do the consultation. I think what's not really known is how much work goes into our preparing to engage in consultation.
Over the course of our history, building the capacity to do the job is first and foremost, and for us, giving us more time to prepare ourselves...because we have technical teams and we have lawyers. We're a very robust government that isn't really known to the world.
I think it's going in the right direction but it definitely needs to go further.
10:40 a.m.
Liberal
Pat Finnigan Liberal Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
Thank you.
I'll just jump in again because I have a very short time.
Would you see a food and ceremonial cache being compatible with the MPA-designated territories, so no-take MPAs?
10:40 a.m.
Chief Councillor, Heiltsuk Tribal Council
We wrote that into our submission—if it is sustainable, yes.
Just to your earlier question around rating consultation, I don't think it's really something that we should be rating at this point. But I do agree with President Lantin that there have been improvements but there is always room for improvement. I think we've clearly articulated in our submissions what we would like to see in terms of consultation.
10:40 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Thank you very much, everybody.
Sorry, Mr. Finnigan, I have to leave it at that. We didn't get around to a full round. We ran out of time.
I want to thank our guests. From the Council of the Haida Nation, president Peter Lantin, thank you very much.
From the Heiltsuk Tribal Council, Chief Marilyn Slett, thank you very much. I hope the next time that I see you, it will be in person, as my niece is a teacher there. She's been troubling me to get there very quickly. I guess I will see you at that point. I look forward to going to Bella Bella.