Evidence of meeting #80 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mpas.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:20 a.m.
President, Council of the Haida Nation
I can't even wrap my head around that scenario. I'm not really understanding—
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Fair enough, we'll move on. One of our witnesses the other day included bottom trawling as a destructive industrial activity. Do you both agree with that definition?
I see nodding, okay.
10:20 a.m.
President, Council of the Haida Nation
Yes. We could elaborate. Go ahead, Marilyn.
10:20 a.m.
Chief Councillor, Heiltsuk Tribal Council
We do definitely, and certainly within the MPAs.
10:20 a.m.
President, Council of the Haida Nation
A lot of the ecological damage that happens from these industries and these practices are not very well known. These are very remote areas. A lot of the time, having a presence in these areas and understanding what is happening in the area has historically been undervalued. I think that where we, as the local members that call these places home....
Presence in these areas is everything. Understanding what damage is being done by these activities is everything. It is happening somewhat in our backyards. Why not come into a partnership with us and get a better understanding of what we're seeing and what we're feeling here?
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
If we look at the prospect of an interim measure, currently the legislation as drafted would permit most activities to continue that had been under way for the previous year. But we've also heard from some witnesses that some fisheries are quite rotational, so you may have a fishery that hasn't taken place for two years or maybe even more.
Is that pattern evident in your areas? Are there fisheries that are quite rotational, that might not happen for two or three years?
Go ahead, President Lantin.
10:20 a.m.
President, Council of the Haida Nation
I think we both share some of the same situations with the rotational fishery. Primarily it's in the sedentary species, geoduck being one of the more prominent ones. Every three years, they cycle in and out of Haida Gwaii. I know it's the same in the Heiltsuk territory. There are examples of that in our territories, for sure.
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
One of the challenges that a federal government has is to make laws that apply evenly across the country, but we're becoming more and more sensitive to the fact that conditions aren't the same in every region of the country. Do you have any advice for us on how best to reflect those differences in legislation or in the application of the legislation, if we look at east coast, west coast, north coast, Great Lakes, etc.?
Chief Slett.
10:20 a.m.
Chief Councillor, Heiltsuk Tribal Council
In terms of your previous question, if the restrictions are still required in the interim areas, then they should apply to those interim areas.
In terms of your second question, whether or not it's east coast, west coast, and something applies nationally, DFO should be talking to our communities. We've done a lot of work around planning, and we know our areas. They need to apply to the regions, to our coastal regions, and that gives more reason to consult and collaborate more directly with our communities.
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Thank you, Chief Slett.
We're now going to move on to our next questioner, Mr. Calkins.
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I've heard very interesting testimony from you, and I want to thank you for that. I had the privilege of travelling up north with the committee when it was doing a study before the legislation was tabled. We heard very similar testimony from some of the Inuit communities up there with regard to preserving their traditional use of resources within the context of a potential marine protected area being put in place.
The main issue I heard was the consultation side. Generally speaking, to each of you, if you can briefly give me your personal opinion.... I don't need you to repeat the legal side of consultation or what's enshrined in the Constitution. I want to know what consultation means to you personally or to the majority of the people you represent.
We can start with President Lantin.
10:25 a.m.
President, Council of the Haida Nation
On Haida Gwaii we have a very storied history around consultation. I think we all know the Haida decision that's laying out the duty to consult and accommodate first nations. For us consultation is an ongoing spectrum. We're seeing that spectrum of consultation move along its course. It goes down the road of actual decision-making. The Haida Nation, we have these co-operative management agreements where we're not being asked to be consulted with, we're actually sitting at a table with two authorities and we're jointly making collective decisions. For us, that's really what UNDRIP is about. That's what free, prior, and informed consent is all about. It's really about decision-making. That's a spectrum of consultation that's an ongoing thing in our world.
10:25 a.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
In other words moving from consultation to the right to be involved.
10:25 a.m.
Conservative
10:25 a.m.
Chief Councillor, Heiltsuk Tribal Council
I would. It would be talking with us in a meaningful way, not just talking at us but having that respectful dialogue that takes our views and our entitlement rights into consideration in the work that we do together.
10:25 a.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Recently I believe the Heiltsuk Tribal Council actually received some participant funding program money for some consultations. The report that was submitted came to this committee long after the decision had already been made. I'm just wondering how that made folks around your table feel.
Are you not familiar with that?
10:25 a.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
This was part of the Coastal First Nations-Great Bear Initiative. It was distributed by the fisheries committee to members on January 3, 2017, three weeks after some members of the committee here submitted their recommendations for the report. The brief was distributed 17 days later, on January 20. The money that was actually sent to you for the participant program, and the brief that was sent back, actually wasn't allowed to be used even though attempts were made to extend the committee's study to incorporate it. It must be a source of frustration, I'm sure.
10:25 a.m.
Chief Councillor, Heiltsuk Tribal Council
It is, for sure. We work really hard to pull together the information in a meaningful way that represents our communities, as we've set out today, both Heiltsuk and Haida, our importance and the role that our marine resources have on our communities. We are a seafaring people, and the work that we do is so connected to that. When we have the opportunity to provide information back to Canada, as Canada is making their decisions around the work they're doing, we very much would like to see the work that we provide be incorporated into that.
10:25 a.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
I think you're absolutely right on that. I know it's frustrating because it's a far cry from the right to be involved to not even be able to have the report you submitted be included. But these things happen I guess from time to time.
I do have some broader questions.
In situations where a first nation does not actually have a territorial dispute resolved, the creation of a marine protected area in some of the disputed territory area creates some potential perplexing problems. How would you guys or the people you represent feel, or how would some of the other first nations along the Pacific coast deal with the creation of an MPA in an area of dispute? How do you see the relationship working between the Government of Canada and first nations in that context?
10:25 a.m.
Chief Councillor, Heiltsuk Tribal Council
We've been working with our neighbours. Coastal first nations have been working together as an aggregate for the last 17 years and we've since developed and formed a central coast aggregate called the Central Coast Indigenous Resource Alliance. We work together on marine use planning and we work together with our neighbours.
10:25 a.m.
President, Council of the Haida Nation
I think for the Haida Nation we're fortunate to be living in an isolated archipelago and we don't have any territorial disputes per se on Haida Gwaii. But we also have an active title case, where we actually are getting prepared to go to court for title to Haida Gwaii, which has required us to engage with all the coastal nations, the Tsimshian primarily. We have to reconcile differences. It's no different from reconciliation between Canada and first nations. We, as first nations, have a storied history. We and the Heiltsuk have a long history of warring together. We just recently in the last few years have signed a peace treaty in a modern context to say that is our history, but we're going to reconcile our differences today for a common goal. I think protecting our environment has always been a common denominator everywhere we go.
Reconciliation has to happen amongst first nations as well, and that's proactively being done by us and the Heiltsuk.