Fisheries Committee on March 20th, 2018

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Eighty per cent of that goes to the Great Lakes, to two species, and the remaining 20% is for the rest of the country. What's coming to B.C.?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Mel, we haven't allocated the funding for this year. That percentage may have been true in previous years. I'm telling you that I think the concern in the Okanagan is really severe, so I'm going to work with the department to see if there's a way to increase that funding. Maybe that 80% you referred to doesn't have to be the ongoing circumstance and certainly not this year.

I'd be happy to work with you, Mel, or give you specific details as we develop them, but I share the concern, I recognize the concern. Our colleague Steve Fuhr talked to me about this yesterday. We'd be happy to try to do more, and I think we can.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Okay, thank you.

Minister, your government promised to fully implement the Cohen commission recommendations, and two and a half years later, this promise is yet to be realized. In August 2016, you were in Vancouver and promised concrete action to restore Pacific salmon stocks, yet your department's preliminary salmon outlook for 2018 shows another grim decline in Pacific salmon stocks.

Fishers, first nations, and the recreational and commercial sectors all echo the same concerns voiced by your department officials in the Pacific region. I see nothing in the estimates aimed at restoring Pacific salmon stocks, and I know this is actually an improvement from your departmental cuts to the salmon enhancement program that you proposed a year ago.

However, I'm still disappointed because Pacific salmon stocks continue to decline, yet these estimates ignore this reality.

Minister, why have your efforts in spending failed to stop the decline of Pacific salmon stocks?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

I share the concern of all Canadians about the rather alarming decline of wild Pacific salmon stocks. I'm not a scientist. However, I've met a number of scientists who have views regarding a whole series of factors that likely contribute to this, from climate change to habitat degradation and, in some cases, overfishing, illegal, unreported, and unregulated fishing in international waters. There are a whole series of factors. I'm not pretending that we can and should not do more. What I'm saying is that it's not only in a spending plan of the Government of Canada that some of these more global factors can be attacked.

I don't necessarily share your view that we have not allocated increased spending to try to deal with some of the recommendations of the Cohen commission, for example. I've said publicly that we have implemented 64 of the 75 recommendations, with our colleagues from Environment and Climate Change. We're going to continue to ensure that we work on the remaining ones. We have $75 million of new investment in coastal restoration, for example. That came as part of the oceans protection plan, which was $1.5 billion in new funding. I hope that a number of these measures will have direct impacts on wild Pacific salmon.

Last week in British Columbia, with a number of indigenous groups and officials in our department, we discussed ongoing plans around management measures for the chinook, for example, which I'll be announcing in the coming weeks.

We're going to continue to do everything we can, and I'll continue to look for increased investments that can make a difference.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you.

Mr. Finnigan, you have five minutes.

[Pat Finnigan, Liberal, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Leblanc, thank you for being here.

As you know, the striped bass spawning ground for the entire gulf is in my region of Miramichi. Last year, the committee travelled to the Atlantic coast, where fishers from all the coastal areas told us that they had never seen so many striped bass, which is a positive sign.

The new regulations will soon be announced, however. I have been talking to people in my riding and I have some concerns. Last year, for the first time, the section of the river where the bass spawn was closed for three weeks. Five years ago, the striped bass population was under 30,000, but it is now estimated at over one million.

Under normal circumstances, people take heed of scientific advice, but since the striped bass population is increasing, they do not really understand why that section of the river was closed for three weeks last year. It is expected that it will be closed again this year. I think people will be very unhappy about that. In my opinion, an awareness campaign would be much more helpful than imposing restrictions on the river.

Moreover, how will we move forward with the first nations on the Collaboration for Atlantic Salmon Tomorrow Inc. initiative?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Finnigan. I really appreciate your advice regarding the striped bass fishery. We are very eager to work with you with regard to the fishery this year. I fully share your observation, and that of other stakeholders, that this species has made an incredible recovery.

In response to a question from our colleague Mr. Arnold, we talked about Pacific salmon. If it could come back as strongly as the striped bass has on the Atlantic coast, from a population of less than 30,000 to over a million, according to estimates that I have also heard, that would be a success. Unfortunately, such an extraordinary success involves other challenges. That is also true for the Atlantic salmon.

Mr. Finnigan, I have not yet seen the final details for this year's fishery plan. I hope we can avoid the three-week closure that we saw last year. I have neither seen nor approved any scientific advice in this regard, but I hope that, through discussions, we will find a way to prevent that from happening again.

This is a recreational fishery that is open to anyone. That is what I like. All kinds of people can enjoy it in a very positive way, as a family, for instance. I hope the catch limits will increase. I will have those details in the coming days.

Moreover, I think it is possible to establish a limited, commercial fishery for aboriginal communities in your riding. Those people might have ideas about the operation of a recreational fishery. That could take the form of a pilot project and have a positive impact on the salmon. I am open to all kinds of ideas like that.

I would ask the deputy minister to provide specific details about the CAST program and the first nations.

[Catherine Blewett]

Mr. Chair, thank you very much for the question on CAST. It is a very important research entity on the east coast. We work well with them. Most recently, we've been working with indigenous communities with CAST. We are working quite well together. We're delighted with the progress we've made so far.

[Pat Finnigan, Liberal, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Mr. Miller, five minutes, please—the other Mr. Miller.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thanks for coming, Minister.

I want to start, Mr. Minister, with recreational fisheries. It's common knowledge that, while the commercial fishery in Canada is worth approximately $2.8 billion—which is significant, of course—the last time I checked, the recreational fishery was $8.3 billion, more than three times as much. Nevertheless, your government has cut out an annual amount of $10 million put in by the previous government. I forget which year it started. I believe it might have been in 2011. I think, Mr. Minister, you'd agree with me that some departments can almost waste $10 million in any given week. That money is out of there. It's not there.

[Voice]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Well, if you can, point out where it is, I can't find it.

One point on that is there was due to be a seventh round. That has been cancelled because the office has said that the money is all gone, so they're not replacing it.

The second thing I want to refer to is small craft harbours. I have to point out that Mr. Morrissey said there is $150 million in new funding. I'd like you to point out where that is. In the 2014-15 budget by the previous government, $288 million was allocated. Now there's $250 million, I believe. I stand to be corrected if it's slightly different. I don't know if that's a new kind of math, but it doesn't add up in my mind.

The last thing I'd like you to comment on is the Great Lakes Fishery Commission. I think it's easy for governments of all stripes to forget that outside of the east and west coasts, which are very important, there are huge commercial and recreational fisheries in both the Great Lakes and Manitoba. Do you think the Great Lakes Fishery Commission is funded enough by this government?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Thanks, Larry. Those are three very specific and compelling questions.

I recognize the huge importance of the recreational fishery. You're absolutely right. It is literally in every province in the country. I was on the west coast last week. I was reminded of the huge Campbell River, B.C. We stayed at the Dolphins Resort. It's a great facility. I stayed there as a kid with my father when I was eight or nine years old 40 years ago, and I wanted to see how it was 40 years later. It's a perfect example of an economic impact. It's very important. You see it all over that community, but you see it in inland provinces as well. I was in Saskatchewan last week and was reminded of the importance of the recreational fishery in the province of Saskatchewan.

As you know, Larry, for a number of inland provinces, we have delegated management of these fisheries to provincial authorities. Ontario's recreational fishery, the Great Lakes fishery, and other inland lakes are huge economic drivers.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

What about the $10 million, though, that does not appear to be in there? It appears to have been cut.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Absolutely, and you're right. That program, from our perspective, made significant investments with small community groups, with local outfitters, anglers, and wildlife groups. The funding will continue for the financial year 2018-19, but we have yet to renew the program. My hope is that over the coming months, I can work with all of you and the Department of Finance to ensure that some of the significant progress this small amount of money has made is not lost and that we can find the right way to continue those investments. I don't have the precise answer in this budget. I hope that by the next budget I will have a precise answer, Larry, because—

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

I'll take your word that you're going to renew it, then. Thank you.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

No, I was very precise. I wish. If I were the Minister of Finance, I'd give you that word, but I'm not the Minister of Finance; I'm the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans. I will work with my colleague the Minister of Finance and others, because I think this program has had, over a short period of time, a positive impact. I want to make sure we don't lose that.

Larry, you also asked about small craft harbours. You're right. The previous government in previous years, going back to the economic crisis of 2008-09, made significant investments in small craft harbours. Every government, and the previous government was no exception, has recognized the huge need and has done what we did in this budget, allocated what we call—bureaucrats at the table will like this—B-based funding, which is a one-time investment over a number of years. In the case of the budget a few weeks ago, it was $250 million over two years.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

It's a reduced number, Mr. Minister, and most of it is going towards divestiture.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

No, I don't agree with that characterization at all.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Folks, I have to cut it right there. I know the Minister—

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

We didn't get to talk about the Great Lakes Fishery Commission.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

We have a certain parameter and standing order that I have to adhere to, so I apologize for that.

Nevertheless, it is 9:44, and we have to call it to an end.

Mr. Donnelly, very quickly.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Chair, can we have 60 seconds to ask just a very quick question?

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Is unanimous consent required? No.

Actually, it's now 9:45.