Fisheries Committee on March 22nd, 2018

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I want to thank the four witnesses for being here today.

I particularly want to thank Mr. Sullivan and Mr. Brazil, because it's always nice to hear directly from the boots on the deck. I represent the south shore of Nova Scotia, one of the largest fishing areas in Atlantic Canada, so I always appreciate hearing the fishers.

Mr. Wiseman, you referenced a study on safety done by the Irish. Do you think you could table that report for us or provide the name of it so that we can have it? I think you made some very good points, that size definitely plays a role in the safety of a vessel.

[Mervin Wiseman]

Yes.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Cleary, I was extremely pleased to hear you say that you wanted DFO to consult directly with fishermen. It doesn't matter which union they're represented by or if they're represented by a union at all.

How do we go about doing that?

We've been told the unions have been the conduit to communication. Maybe not.

How many fishers do we have in Newfoundland? How do you consult with them? That's a big challenge.

I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts on how that can be achieved.

[Ryan Cleary]

How many fishermen and fish harvesters in Newfoundland and Labrador is a good question. As I pointed out in my presentation, the Labour Relations Board has been trying to find that out for 15 months, and there's no end in sight for that.

I also mentioned in my presentation that, beginning last November and wrapping up in February, for the first time in a generation—and I'm not exaggerating in any way—DFO started in Labrador, worked their way down the Great Northern Peninsula, the south coast, the southwest coast, the east coast, and northeast coast, holding direct consultations.

The regional managers of DFO held these 20 meetings. I attended 17 of the 20. To start, they asked the fish harvesters who were in the room what their concerns were. Like Mr. McDonald's testimony in the last session—it was refreshing to hear some of the things you had to say, Mr. McDonald—it was refreshing to have DFO officials walk into a room, no big speeches, no big presentations, and ask about our concerns. That's the start. DFO, as you said, and as I said earlier, should bypass any unions and go directly to the fishermen and ask what they need, what they want, if this is working, if this is not working.

Most things are not working. Most commercial fisheries in Newfoundland and Labrador are at or near the critical point. As Jason mentioned about the northern cod, the technical briefing is tomorrow and we hear rumours it's showing a 14% decline. That is just shocking.

From my perspective, DFO is not doing its job in any way.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

You also mentioned the time frame. I'm not sure if it was with regard to registration or licensing. You said Nova Scotia takes a month, Newfoundland takes a year, Conne River in Newfoundland takes a day.

What was that with reference to?

[Ryan Cleary]

Vessel leasing.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Short-term leasing.

[Jason Sullivan]

We're not allowed to do it in Newfoundland, but everyone else can.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

As I said with previous witnesses, it amazes me—in a country with federal departments—that we don't have the same regulations from one end to the other. I know we have a lot of vessels in my riding that of course are changing sizes to accommodate traps for lobster fishing, but I haven't heard a lot about the challenges you're facing.

Can you cite other examples where there is a difference between provinces that seems to be more advantageous to one area than another?

[Jason Sullivan]

Everywhere except for Newfoundland, basically. Like I say, their base length is higher to begin with. They have short-term leases; they have—

[Ryan Cleary]

—the ability to fish in other provinces, for example.

[Jason Sullivan]

Yes.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I will say there are other areas that have the ability to fish in other provinces, because we have PEI fishers coming into the south shore of Nova Scotia, but Nova Scotians can't go there. We have it as well, in that respect.

[Jason Sullivan]

It's tricky.

The basic rules are just.... With vessel length, for example, I built a new boat. She's 39 feet, but 28 feet wide. Ten or 15 years ago, a 45-foot boat by 20 feet was called a “super 45”. My boat now, square footage-wise, is bigger than that, but DFO is so stuck on this length thing. It's just so stupid.

Not everyone is going to go out and spend $700,000 on a boat. The thing is, there are so many 45-foot or 44 feet 11 inch boats available because every other province could do this all along, that they're able to get a decent boat for $100,000. They automatically fall in line with the CSI rules, and they're going to be more safe and everything else.

That's just the option. You hear fearmongering back home, with people saying, “Oh, I have to go buy a 45-foot boat now.” You don't have to buy anything. You can keep the boat you have. It's up to you. You still only have whatever you want to catch, but it gives you the option, especially with the new groundfishery coming back, where every licence is deemed the same. We fish the same areas, and we have the same amounts, but some guys are expected to go 200 miles in a 35-footer. It's not right.

When you talk about a competitive advantage, they bring that in when it suits them. I'd like to know how an 89 feet 11 inch doesn't have a competitive advantage over a 39 feet 11 inch when you have the exact same licence.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you.

I believe Mr. Arnold has a quick point.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank you fellas for being here. Unfortunately, my question isn't for you.

Through the chair, I would like to request that we get a response, preferably from the Ministry of Transport and others, as to the expected and/or typical timeline for a new stability assessment for various sizes of fishing vessels and the risk assessment process that the Ministry of Transport, DFO, and the Canadian Coast Guard use to determine the timeline and requirements for stability assessments for vessels that have been modified.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

I suggest you form your question into a motion for the next meeting. We can't do it here right now. We have to have 48 hours' notice, as you know. You may want to do that to bring that motion forward. In the meantime, you may want to directly ask Transport.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

It was a question I posed to the Ministry of Transport officials who were here this morning. We did not get an answer. Formally, as part of this meeting, I'd like to request that we receive an answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Just a second.

Sorry—it's related to the study, so if you want to move it, you can.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Very good. I move, then, that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

I don't have time to go into what he just said. Does everybody understand what he said?

All those in favour of the motion by Mr. Arnold?

(Motion agreed to)

Thank you very much for being here, Mr. Wiseman, Mr. Cleary, Mr. Brazil, and Mr. Sullivan.

Mr. Sullivan's document will be translated and brought to this committee on March 28.

Thank you all.