Evidence of meeting #93 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was safety.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Ken McDonald Liberal Avalon, NL
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I know that Mr. Doherty was asking about FFAW's involvement, and along the same line of questioning, Ms. Perry, perhaps with a yes-or-no answer—because I only have five minutes and I want to get to a number of things—when there is a reallocation of a particular quota, whether it be halibut, turbot, or whatever, and they do the so-called draw, where they draw to see who's actually going to get a share in that additional quota, who conducts that draw?
9:30 a.m.
Regional Director General, Region - Newfoundland and Labrador, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The department conducts draws when it comes to access to particular fisheries, and oftentimes that draw is also witnessed by others. I'm not specifically familiar with the case you're referring to, but where it comes down to access to fisheries, I can assure you that the department, if it doesn't do the draw itself, is present when the draw is taking place. I don't know the specifics you're referring to.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Ken McDonald Liberal Avalon, NL
No, and I think it was probably an increase in halibut or something. There was a quota taken back, and then it was given back again to be shared amongst people in the industry. It was done under a draw system. I believe that a witness here said that the draw was actually done by FFAW, and that if his name ever came out of the bag, it would be put back in and he wouldn't get any of the quota, if that's the case....
You mentioned as well—or somebody did—the shrimp fishery and the consultations on that. I differ a bit on it, because it was actually members of the Newfoundland and Labrador caucus who met with the minister and pleaded to have a look at buddying up where the shrimp quotas were going so low. I don't think consultations did it. It was the caucus that met with the minister, and the minister decided to make that decision, against some other views.
We've had witnesses appear and.... I won't go there.
In previous testimony, Ms. Perry, you testified that most fisheries are IQed or whatever. We were talking about capacity with the bigger boats. You said that even in the groundfish industry there are some who don't necessarily have an IQ. From where I stand and from what I've heard, every groundfish either has an IQ, a daily limit, a weekly limit, or a trip limit. What fishery would be outside of that in the groundfish?
9:35 a.m.
Regional Director General, Region - Newfoundland and Labrador, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
There's a wide variety of groundfish species that do not have trip limits or IQ fisheries: skate, monk, hake, and some turbot. It depends very much on the fleet and the gear type as to whether or not those types of harvest limitations are in place.
I think that in my previous testimony I testified that relatively few fisheries had IQ regimes in Newfoundland and Labrador. In other regions, there might be more instances of IQs or ITQs, but in Newfoundland and Labrador, that's not commonly used. The crab fishery is the most significant, obviously, and there are some others, such as 3Ps cod, that are IQed, but it isn't the most commonly used management regime in this region.
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
Ken McDonald Liberal Avalon, NL
Thank you.
Mr. Waddell, you mentioned that you couldn't comment on the safety of a boat. Let's say that I'm fishing the exact quota as my colleague Ms. Jordan, and I'm doing it in a 50-foot vessel and she's doing it in a 39-foot 11-inch vessel. Regardless of where we're fishing, if we're both out at the same distance and everything else—let's say we're at the 180-mile offshore—would you say that the 50-foot vessel provides me a bit more security and safety than her 39-foot 11-inch vessel, yes or no?
9:35 a.m.
Acting Director General, Licensing and Planning, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Do you have the same crew, the exact same training, the same equipment, all the same circumstances?
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
9:35 a.m.
Acting Director General, Licensing and Planning, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Then I would say that you are equally safe.
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
Ken McDonald Liberal Avalon, NL
Okay. Thank you.
I want to go back to the non-core issue for just a second, Ms. Perry, because you did talk about it and how there probably were people who weren't considered full-time fishermen. It's been about 26 years, I guess, since we put the moratorium on the North Atlantic cod. Since that time there have been people—as we heard a witness here testify—who stuck with that fishery. They stayed with it. Whether or not they were non-core, they stuck with that fishery, and all they've ever done is fish.
Wouldn't you think, in looking at that, that it's time to designate that if you're a fisherman, you're a fisherman, and if you're not, you're not? Some of the non-core ones, who can probably prove and attest that they've been fishing constantly for 26 years in that industry, should be designated if that's what it takes to enable them to go to a vessel that's bigger than the 28-foot vessel. It's time to move to making them core fishermen. I know that I'm going to get phone calls from certain union officials for making that statement, but I'd like to hear your rationale.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Todd Doherty
I'm sorry. We're over time for Mr. McDonald, but I will allow you to answer that question.
9:35 a.m.
Regional Director General, Region - Newfoundland and Labrador, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The core exercise was an extensive exercise. It was followed, I would also suggest, by an extensive appeal process that was repeated multiple times. This exercise that determined the core and the non-core categorizations of harvesters has been tested time and time again. Harvesters who now find themselves a holder of a non-core categorization, I assure you would have had ample opportunity to have that categorization reviewed multiple times—
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Todd Doherty
Thank you, Ms. Perry.
Mr. Donnelly, you have three minutes.
9:35 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to turn to Ms. Perry with a question.
We've heard testimony that a vast number of inshore fishers in Atlantic Canada are fine with the vessel length rules, but there are a small number of fishers who want larger boats. What do you say to that small number of fishers who want larger boats?
9:35 a.m.
Regional Director General, Region - Newfoundland and Labrador, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
What we have been saying to those harvesters throughout Atlantic Canada is that the vessel eligibility policies exist and they are expected to respect them. There is an appeal process in each region that allows harvesters to bring forward their particular circumstances to be reviewed to determine whether extenuating circumstances exist that warrant exceptions being made.
9:35 a.m.
Regional Director General, Region - Newfoundland and Labrador, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Not very often, but we do have examples of where a particular circumstance warrants those exceptions.
9:40 a.m.
Regional Director General, Region - Newfoundland and Labrador, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We have indeed.
9:40 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
It seemed like we got onto hitting a bit of a target here with quota versus technology. You were talking about fishing effort. The committee was looking for a further explanation of that. That was followed up by explaining quotas focused on the catch and technology and how you catch it.
I have one question, because I think there is some merit to having rules. We do want fishermen to be safe. On the issue on quota monitoring, for instance, can we talk a bit about monitoring? For instance, if fishermen go out and are asked and say, look, we limit the catch, we limit the size of boat, how do we know that their catches are within those quotas and that fishermen are safe? How do we monitor?
9:40 a.m.
Acting Director General, Licensing and Planning, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We monitor through a variety of mechanisms. We have both the at-sea observers, who are observing the landings as they come aboard the vessel, and dockside monitors, who are watching the transit of the landings back to shore. We use electronic logbooks in some instances and paper logbooks in others, where we ask fishers to record their catch, the location of their catch, gear type, etc. and provide that information back to the department so that we can review it. Our conservation protection officers are also out doing direct enforcement and direct engagement with harvesters.
9:40 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
We know that there are limitations in all those things you've just mentioned.
9:40 a.m.
Acting Director General, Licensing and Planning, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
There are.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Todd Doherty
Thank you, Mr. Donnelly.
I'm going to ask the committee for permission for two short questions, one for me and one for Mr. Miller.
9:40 a.m.
Some hon members
Agreed.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Todd Doherty
Thanks.
Ms. Perry, through testimony, we know of two previous fishers who had to appeal the ruling to get a vessel length change. Do you know the outcome of those two appeals? Can you share that with the committee?