Yes. If I may—
Evidence of meeting #93 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was safety.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #93 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was safety.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:15 a.m.
Regional Director General, Region - Newfoundland and Labrador, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes. If I may—
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Could you point to one thing you've changed as a result of that process?
9:15 a.m.
Regional Director General, Region - Newfoundland and Labrador, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I can point to one significant thing. As a result of an extensive direct consultation with harvesters in the run-up to the 2017 fishing season, we made a significant change to our combining policy that permitted shrimp licences to be combined. That was previously prohibited. In prior years we allowed combining to be done only on a whole-of-enterprise basis, whereas in response to harvester views and in response to the reductions in the inshore shrimp allocations in 2017, we allowed shrimp licences to be combined.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Was there any reduction in the combination? One of the criticisms you get of the buddy-up is that if there are two fishers combined, they have to lose part of their income or part of their quota to do that, so it tends to be.... While it looks good on paper, it's not a policy that's conducive to being used.
9:15 a.m.
Regional Director General, Region - Newfoundland and Labrador, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I can't speak to the testimony that you may be referring to in drawing that conclusion, but it is strictly a one-for-one combining. There is no loss of income—
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Todd Doherty
Thank you, Ms. Perry.
With that, we'll go to Mr. Miller for five minutes.
April 17th, 2018 / 9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair. There's never enough time, but I thank the witnesses for being here.
The more I hear about this vessel length study that Mr. McDonald brought up, the more baffled I am as to how much of a lack of common sense there is within the bureaucracy in the DFO.
My time is limited, and nobody yet has explained to me what the rationale is for vessel length. Now, I can understand the difference between a 20-foot boat and a 45-foot one and the difference between a 35-foot boat and a 55-foot one. Who the hell should care whether it's six inches or a foot or whatever?
In 25 words or less, I'd like somebody to explain to me what the rationale is that would be ludicrous enough to make one fisherman fish with four different boats. Who wants to talk about it? I don't want any bureaucratic language. Just tell me like it is.
9:15 a.m.
Acting Director General, Licensing and Planning, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I'll try to do it in 25 words or less.
Means to control vessel length is a proxy for controlling effort in the fishery. That is where we began when we had competitive fisheries. As we've evolved over time towards IQs in various fisheries, we can see changes within the fleets. We have seen that over time.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Basically, you don't trust the fishermen, and if you don't trust them, monitoring or checking out there should be what it takes.
Now, here's the part where I have a hard time to take that as an answer. I hunt and fish, just recreationally. If I get a deer tag, I'm allowed one deer. If I take more than one deer, I can be checked by an officer or whatever. It's the same thing with fish limits. That's what controls the catch.
Why should it not work the same here?
9:15 a.m.
Acting Director General, Licensing and Planning, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
To continue that analogy, the government also ensures that you use a certain type of weapon and doesn't allow you to use a cannon.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
True, but that doesn't answer the silliness in DFO's regulations.
9:20 a.m.
Acting Director General, Licensing and Planning, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We're controlling effort to the same extent—
9:20 a.m.
Acting Director General, Licensing and Planning, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes, for competitive fisheries.
9:20 a.m.
Acting Director General, Licensing and Planning, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Fishing effort.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Maybe.... I can tell over there that none of them get that word either. Is—
9:20 a.m.
Acting Director General, Licensing and Planning, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It's a capacity issue within the fleet. It's also something such that individuals within the fleet want their peers to be at the same sort of level, for everybody to have an even sort of basis of equipment for executing the fishery, prosecuting a fishery.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
So it isn't based on what you catch, really? It's based on the boat you're in. It's like keeping up with the Joneses. If the Joneses have a 45-foot boat and I have a 38-foot, that's not good enough.
9:20 a.m.
Acting Director General, Licensing and Planning, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I won't say that's not good enough.
Jackie, do you want to...?
9:20 a.m.
Regional Director General, Region - Newfoundland and Labrador, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Maybe I can provide some clarification.
There are two types of tools that we use to manage fisheries. One is input controls or capacity controls. That speaks to vessel size, vessel capacity, and amount of gear. The other is output or catch controls. That speaks to quotas. We need both.
When they are out of alignment, that gap creates a situation where fishery resources are subject to and vulnerable to over-exploitation. We need both available to us.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Okay. I would dispute that to a degree. I get why they're both important, and I'm okay with that. If you actually have enforcement out there, I don't see a big issue because I'm somebody with whatever size of boat. I have a lot of money tied up, and the last thing I'm going to do is to be stupid enough to jeopardize losing that boat because of overfishing.
I want to touch on what Mr. Morrissey did. We have heard time and time again about lack of consultation, and I go with the fishermen on this. It appears, as I've been told, that the only people you consult with are the FFAW. That's not consulting with the fishermen. They might belong to that union, but consulting with the union doesn't mean that you're consulting with the fishermen.
Mr. Vincent.
9:20 a.m.
Regional Director General, Region - Québec, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I'll give you a concrete example of very protected areas. We went into each village, with maps on the table and fishers around the table, to discuss where the marine protected areas should be and whether it impeded their fisheries. We had face-to-face discussions. That's one example. We did that 40 times, just in Quebec.