Fisheries Committee on April 24th, 2018

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Thank you for raising that, Mr. Donnelly.

As you know, our government is committed, and the Prime Minister spoke in the House of Commons in February about a rights recognition framework. I know that my colleague the Minister of Justice and cabinet are working on exactly how that would be rolled out.

Free, prior, and informed consent is a necessary part of that conversation. I want to be a bit prudent in saying, on behalf of the government, how amendments with respect to that in the Fisheries Act.... I would want to make sure they're concurrent—and concordant is the word in French—with other contemplated actions by the government in that respect.

Certainly, the policy thrust of your question and its application to this legislation is something to which we're enormously sensitive. There again we could work with you and other colleagues on if and how that would properly, in my view, be incorporated into the legislation. There's a lot of common ground we could achieve on that.

[The Chair]

Thank you, Minister.

We'll now go to Mr. Hardie for seven minutes. I've been quite generous, going over the time. I'll have to tighten up on that.

You have seven minutes, please, Mr. Hardie.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Just my luck, the generosity ends.

Mr. Minister, thank you for being here. It was a real pleasure to go through the past acts, to look at some of the reasons why things were done, to see if there are good things that should be maintained, and to use at the same time, obviously, whatever experience we've gathered over the last number of years to make some adjustments and in some cases some major improvements.

One major improvement that isn't referenced in the legislation is the oceans protection plan, which of course is really big out on the west coast. It's a pivotal piece of work that isn't as well understood on the west coast as it should be, especially given the whole matter of the Kinder Morgan line, etc.

My question is kind of an open-ended one, but I have a follow-up question. Give me some time at the end, because I know you'll just get going here.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

You're not suggesting, Mr. Hardie, that I would rag the puck. I wouldn't filibuster your question.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

You wouldn't?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

No. Never.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Okay. Good.

Can you talk about Bill C-68 and the complementary aspects between Bill C-68 and the oceans protection plan?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

You're right, Mr. Hardie, that the oceans protection plan from our perspective is a very significant historic investment. A great deal of the work is obviously focused on the west coast. The same thing would apply on all of Canada's coasts.

In terms of the proper development of industries that necessarily use, for example, marine navigation and ocean transport, we think Canadians and the global community expect us to have world-leading safeguards to protect coasts, to prevent any environmental damage, but also to, for example, improve access of indigenous communities to search and rescue assets, to environmental response circumstances, and to improve the Coast Guard's capacity to respond to a whole series of incidents. There are search and rescue examples from the west coast and Newfoundland and Labrador, with real concerns expressed around search and rescue capacity that we've sought to improve.

All of those things, from our perspective, might.... The “crosswalk”, to use the bureaucratic phrase that my colleagues at the table will be pleased to hear me use, would probably be around modern safeguards. If we say that the legislation should have modern safeguards, we think that the government needs to have the tools to make those modern safeguards real for Canadians. It necessarily involves expenditures, and $1.5 billion in the oceans protection plan is a significant investment.

I would point out to colleagues that almost $300 million in additional dollars were also assigned to Bill C-68 and Fisheries Act modernization, so this legislation necessarily comes with an investment as well of almost $300 million.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

We have heard from the Premier of British Columbia, Mr. Horgan, that he has identified some gaps, or what he perceives as gaps, in the OPP. Has he provided you with any details, and if so, are there evident remedies that you're going to pursue?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

That's a very important question, Mr. Hardie, not only in your province but also, I would argue, nationally as well.

I know there are discussions between senior officials. Deputy ministers from your province were in Ottawa yesterday and met with our deputy minister, Catherine Blewett. Those discussions were around exactly that: how can priorities identified by the Government of British Columbia be reflected in oceans protection plan spending? The province is working with us on the concerns they have and the suggestions they have. There's a very active high-level discussion going on between our government and the Government of British Columbia. My colleague Terry Beech and others have been involved in those discussions on how we can respond to those concerns in the best way possible.

I'm confident that those suggestions from the Government of British Columbia can improve and strengthen a plan that we think is very important to all Canadians.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

The very first study that this committee undertook after the election was to look at the Coast Guard operations on the west coast. Of concern to us was the closure of the MCTS station at Comox. We have since been getting regular updates as to the performance of the newly amalgamated operation centre in Sidney, and there does still seem to be a significant number of outages and some gaps, particularly in staffing. A lot of the issues we identified in the study don't appear to have been resolved.

I'm wondering how closely you have been able to follow that and whether or not we did make the right decision in closing Comox.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Hardie.

I remember some of the discussion. As you say, in the months that followed the election, I think Mr. Tootoo was Minister of Fisheries and Oceans at the time. I remember those discussions around Comox and colleagues from your province certainly raised it in our caucus and spoke to me about it. I have insisted that the Canadian Coast Guard respond to the concerns of British Columbians and ensure that the facilities that I visited in Sidney are able to provide the highest level of service necessary for people navigating on the west coast. I acknowledge there were some concerns around outages or service gaps, radio towers or electrical outages, in some circumstances. These were raised as perfectly understandable concerns.

The Coast Guard has assured me that the investments they're making, have made, and are committed to continuing to make, will provide the highest level of service possible and it will be a better level of service and reliability than would have existed with the technology in the previous MCTS circumstance.

Mr. Hardie, we don't have a senior official from the Coast Guard here, but I'll ask Philippe Morel to make sure that the commissioner of the Coast Guard gives you the details of the circumstances, the investments we're making, and how we believe the Sidney facility can provide the appropriate coverage in British Columbia. If you have specific questions or concerns, obviously, I would ask the commissioner of the Coast Guard to be available to respond to them, but we'll get back to you with specific examples of concerns we've heard and what we've done to remedy them. If you would like to have a further conversation, I'd be happy to do so.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

That's excellent.

[The Chair]

Mr. Donnelly, do you have a point of order?

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Very quickly, the minister has mentioned that he would pass on information. Would he make that available to the committee?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

I'd be happy to do so, Madam Chair. We'd be happy to send it through you.

Thank you, Mr. Donnelly.

[The Chair]

Thank you.

You're finished, Mr. Hardie? You have 30 seconds.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I'll have other questions for the officials later.

[The Chair]

Okay.

We will now go to Mr. Sopuck for five minutes, please.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Thank you.

I want to correct the record, Minister. I was on the fisheries committee when the review took place, and many people and groups were very much opposed to changing our Fisheries Act. Ron Bonnett, the president of the Canadian Federation of Agriculture, said,

The experience that many farmers had with the Fisheries Act, unfortunately, was not a positive one. It was characterized by lengthy bureaucratic applications for permitting and authorizations....

He went on to point out how much better the new Fisheries Act was. I was pleased to hear you talk about the sensitivity to rural areas, and that you want to do a better job.

The other thing that was discussed at that time was the need for quick reviews of damaged infrastructure to ensure this infrastructure could be repaired. However, I'm going to bring up a specific matter to you, a specific issue, because talking in generalities is not as helpful as bringing a specific example.

The Assiniboine River flows through Manitoba and the community of Portage la Prairie. That area is represented by the Manitoba Minister of Education, the Honourable Ian Wishart. He was doing some constituency work regarding an obstruction on the Assiniboine that, because of the low water now, the water is going around this obstruction and tearing away at the banks and has the potential to damage a housing development there. He called your department on September 29, 2017, and was told that the landowner in this particular case had to fill out a request for review form from the Government of Canada.

Being good citizens and because it is in-stream work to pull this obstruction out, they wanted to do the right thing. As of April 20, there has not been a response from your department whatsoever. That is shocking to me to have all those months go by with a serious infrastructure issue in place right now and your department has not responded to a Manitoba cabinet minister who is personally involved in this constituency issue. How can you let that happen under your watch?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

The initial part of your question was instructive, and I'll respond to the specific circumstances in a second.

We value the input of agricultural producers in rural municipalities. As I said, when the committee considers its work, we should be alert to and listen to some of the voices we've all heard. I certainly was and want to be and will be. We recognize some of the very legitimate concerns that existed in the past. We think the solutions we've proposed strike the right balance but we would be open to continuing to listen.

Obviously, you'll appreciate I'm not familiar with the particular application on the Assiniboine River in Manitoba on September 29. I haven't been briefed on that specific issue. Obviously I will be informed on that and be happy to get back to the committee with details on that particular application. Our government is investing massively in improving infrastructure, particularly around climate change mitigation. I've heard, and your province—

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I'm not asking about climate change, Minister. You're ragging the puck again.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

You asked about infrastructure improvements.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Except that this is a specific case. You've come to the committee, you're bragging about how well the department does and so on, and I'm pointing out a shocking level of bureaucratic incompetence that is not addressing a specific issue in a Manitoba cabinet minister's constituency.

Obviously, Minister, I did not expect you to know the specifics of this case, but I'm mostly speaking to your officials. This is shocking to not have a response to an ongoing issue that is threatening infrastructure. Your department is dragging its feet. I would recommend, Minister, that you send a very strong message to your department that rural communities are to be treated with respect and that politicians, provincial MLAs, are given that respect. I would respectfully request that you look into this issue.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Mr. Sopuck, obviously I wouldn't ascribe to the phrase about the shocking incompetence of the bureaucracy. I don't view that as the appropriate way to characterize the work that almost 11,000 men and women do in my department every day to serve Canadians.

You've identified a specific project, as I said. I would point out to the committee that this project would have been considered under the 2017 Fisheries Act, as amended by the previous Conservative government in 2012, so that particular proposal would be looked at in the context of the previous legislation.

I do believe that the—