Fisheries Committee on May 1st, 2018

[Ian MacPherson]

Yes.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Do you feel that Bill C-68 effectively enshrines into law the existing owner-operator policy and the fleet separation policy?

[Ian MacPherson]

Certainly, it's a good start. We'll review the language. If I could take the liberty of providing some language for the committee, we'll do that also.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Do you have some observations to provide?

[Ian MacPherson]

Yes, now that it's getting closer, certainly.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Very good.

I want to briefly go here, because it was an issue that I raised when officials were here before the committee. The department has committed additional resources to enhance enforcement and protection. Another area of concern I hear a lot from fishers is that they're doing their part, but they do not see the department stepping up to the plate in the area of protection.

The second part was—and I believe you briefly alluded to it, Mr. MacPherson—the courts imposing penalties and fines for fishery infractions because of the value, the significant value, of the product. There appears to be a disconnect between the deterrent from a legal or fine perspective and the reward for violating fishery regulations.

[Ian MacPherson]

One of the recent examples was that there were some fairly minor fines assessed to, unfortunately, some bad actors who had captured a number of female snow crab. Of course, with any egg-bearing females, in lobster or whatever, it's important for the resource to be sustained. We didn't really feel that the fine was in sync with the infraction, but since that time there have been some pretty stiff penalties coming down, and also suspensions, and that certainly sends a strong message

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Would your group submit an overview on that side, where the department could look at putting more minimums in?

[Ian MacPherson]

We certainly could do that because we want the resource to be sustainable, and it only takes a few people acting out to create some problems.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

I have one quick question for Ms. Fuller. Could you elaborate a little? You said the act is one of the oldest acts in Canada and this revision simply brings it up to 1970s level. We're at 2018. Could you expand a bit on where you see the gap between the 1970s and 2018?

[Susanna Fuller]

Absolutely. It was the first act after the British North America Act. I would say, when we look at some of the other legislation in other countries around fishery building and habitat protection, we see that our act doesn't quite get us to where we need to be in this century. That is also a comment I've heard from some DFO staff, that we've come this far, which is great, and it is a major overhaul of our—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bernadette Jordan]

I'm sorry, Dr. Fuller, I have to cut you off. We're out of time.

[Susanna Fuller]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bernadette Jordan]

I have to go to our next person on the list.

Mr. Miller, please, you have seven minutes.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

I'm going to split my time with Mr. Arnold.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bernadette Jordan]

Do you want me to tell you at three and a half minutes, or are you just going to share?

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Yes, but I may be done before that.

To Ms. Fuller, for her information, the act was modernized in 2012. I think that is important.

Mr. MacPherson, you mentioned you represent 1,260 harvesters, and I want to enlarge a bit on what Mr. Morrissey asked you about advisory councils. We've heard many times, especially from harvesters, that the lack of consultation was a big problem. Do you see that these advisory councils are maybe not going a long way but at least are going partway to making that consultation more fruitful?

[Ian MacPherson]

If I'm talking about some of the larger federal ones.... I believe one of the first ones was just appointed around the marine protected areas, and there's no industry representation on that council. I guess that's my comment there. Certainly ex-government people have a place and groups that are interested in the fishery have a place, but industry should also be part of that, too, to give a balanced approach.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Okay. I don't disagree that industry should be involved, but how do you improve, then, what we've heard so many times about the lack of consultation in the whole discussion, whether it's changes to the Fisheries Act or something else under DFO?

[Ian MacPherson]

To answer both questions, one of the things that just occurred to me is that, a lot of times, the terms of reference are very restrictive in terms of who can participate on those committees and generally exclude anyone who has been associated with the industry.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Are you saying the kinds of rules put in place make it appear like somebody doesn't really want to hear the input or consultation?

[Ian MacPherson]

No. I wouldn't say that. I'm talking about actual members on some of these committees that Mr. Morrissey was referring to.

I think we need to see industry properly represented on these committees, but sometimes the terms of reference, or who can be on those committees, is restrictive and excludes people from industry.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Do you think it's restrictive just for that reason? What's your read on that?

[Ian MacPherson]

I won't speculate. Maybe, back in the day, there wasn't the interest from industry. I can say one thing for sure: fishing organizations are very involved with the industry, right from policy to every aspect of conservation, protection, and everything you want to see. We want to be involved. We want our input considered.

It could be a minor change that has a big impact.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Toner, or Mr. Marchi, what changes in the Fisheries Act do you think are detrimental to some of your proposed projects? Keep it as brief as you can, but give me an example.