Fisheries Committee on May 1st, 2018

[Joshua Laughren]

I think it is lack of guidance, and it's lack of a framework for making these decisions. I think we're all complicit. There are a lot of voices on a lot of different stocks, voices that are calling for stocks to be reopened before they should, or for quotas to be set higher, to be pushed to the upper, upper level or even beyond what the scientific advice is. Those voices come from outside the department, too. While I want to hold the department accountable for decisions, I also want to make sure that we're being fair and accurate about where these drivers are coming from, and they're broad.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

We do nothing to create more fish. That's an observation. We like to talk a good game, but we do nothing to create more fish.

[Joshua Laughren]

I wouldn't be as stark as that. I think we have examples of good management in Canada. We have examples where stocks have come back, good-news stories like halibut. I take that as a really positive point. When you take the pressure off stocks and let them recover, in almost all cases, they do. Just give them the time, and let nature take its course, if you will.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

You mentioned a few countries that have had some success. Could I ask that your group table that with our committee, perhaps a little bit more in depth? Our analysts could get that information for us as well.

[Joshua Laughren]

For sure.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Gratton, I really appreciate your testimony on this piece of legislation. In your opinion, did the changes in 2012 make it easier for proponents to get their projects approved?

[Pierre Gratton]

Not mining proponents, no.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Okay. Others would have people believe that it was willy-nilly, that once those changes were made, project proponents had free rein to go and do whatever they wanted. We've had previous testimony from witnesses who said that this is not the case. As a matter of fact, it gave some clarity as to the process to move forward, but it didn't give basically a blank cheque to go out and do projects. Is that correct?

[Pierre Gratton]

Do you want to answer that? Go ahead.

[Justyna Laurie-Lean, Vice-President, Environment and Regulatory Affairs, Mining Association of Canada]

The differences between the actual interpretation of the act and the changes, at least for our sector in inland waters, were very subtle. Some of the biologists that work in our sector would argue that the current act is scientifically more sound because it focuses on the productivity of the fishery broadly and it allows accounting for the food intake, the quality of habitat, and so on, better than the previous act or the future act to some extent.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

You're referring to the current act, meaning the changes that were made in 2012.

[Justyna Laurie-Lean]

Yes. However, it fell down in the compliance, promotion, and implementation. A lot of people were left with an inaccurate understanding of what the act is.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Gratton, you mentioned that basically the previous six years' worth of work would likely have to be scrapped and started over. Do you know the number of projects that would be affected?

[Pierre Gratton]

It's only about a half dozen. It's not a lot, but for these projects, it's.... In particular, in the one example we gave you, they have redone it already, but they'd have to redo it a second time.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Okay.

Are these major projects?

[Pierre Gratton]

Yes, these are major mines. In fact, this particular project is in your province.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Do you have an economic impact on that?

[Pierre Gratton]

The cost for this one is probably in the low millions. The further delay before the project can actually get up and running also has an impact.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Sullivan, I appreciate your comments on the owner-operator and fleet separation being the two most important economic development tools for Newfoundland and Labrador. Your organization has recently come out very vocally against the minister with respect to the TAC with snow crab, the pricing with snow crab, and the surf clam decision.

Does it not give you and your organization some fear that Bill C-68 gives the minister more of this kind of authority, which will have such a great impact on your membership?

[Keith Sullivan]

First of all, the biggest benefit we would see is how we actually follow up with the protection and promotion of the owner-operator fleet.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I'm specifically talking about the ministerial authority.

[Keith Sullivan]

Yes.

As I mentioned before, inshore vessels have incredible capacity now, and they could harvest surf clam. That was an example where we saw good jobs transferred out of Newfoundland and Labrador to another province, really destabilizing what has been a very solid workforce. The opportunity to make that kind of decision existed before. We feel that in many ways this is actually improved and more focused on getting input from people in communities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bernadette Jordan]

Thank you, Mr. Sullivan, I have to cut you off there.

We're going to Mr. Donnelly for his seven minutes please.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you to all our witnesses for being here to provide testimony on Bill C-68, the Fisheries Act, probably one of the most important pieces of legislation in the country for protecting our fishery.

We have spoken about the importance of trying to prevent overfishing. That's a critical case. We've talked about the importance of rebuilding plans. I would also submit that the importance of habitat or habitat loss is critical across the country when we're talking about flourishing fishery.

Mr. Laughren, if I could start with you and Oceana, you provided some specific examples of other countries and how rebuilding plans in their legislation is important. You provided those specifics.

You mentioned right at the very end of your testimony that you could provide wording on amending Bill C-68 so that's included. Are you able to get that in to us as soon as possible?

[Joshua Laughren]

Yes, we will. We've been consulting with the department on this, with the minister's office, in part to make sure we avoid any unintended consequences.

I believe the last day for amendments is May 10. We will make sure we're in before that, and hopefully significantly before that, so as soon as possible.