Fisheries Committee on Feb. 25th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Arnold.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm sure this is something that will come out if we do this study, but maybe there's a simple answer here right now. Can DFO not change regulations or provide regulations that would allow for other bait to be used so that it doesn't have to be herring specifically?

I think that would be more a question for the department, the biologists and the science staff within the department, than it would be for this committee. Just looking at it, if you're going to go fishing for trout, you use this for bait, or if you're going fishing for that, you use this for bait. It's more a departmental regulatory issue than it is a major study.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

That's the reason for the study. We're looking at options. There have been several. Asian carp is one that I've heard about, and it is being used by fishermen in the United States, but also, there are other things—like seal meat—that have been discussed as possibilities. I think the study would flesh out all the areas of need, so that our fishermen, in this upcoming season or next season, would have viable options for the four million to eight million pounds of bait that has been reduced.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Johns.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Right now we're having a similar conversation on the west coast about herring, the importance of forage fish and the interdependence that has with other species, and how certainly we don't have an ecosystem-based management approach when it comes to herring and the management of herring. Also, there's DFO's modelling on how they're managing herring. I mean, we only have one herring fishery of five open on the west coast.

I don't know if the member would even be open to this, but maybe looking at more of a whole study on herring and the importance of it on both the Pacific and the east coasts...? I think it's really important that we take a look at herring. It's a core foundational species. I'm just opening that up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Blanchette-Joncas.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I want to move an amendment to the motion to include Quebec. Many Quebec fishers on the north shore use herring to catch crab. It would be very appropriate to include Quebec rather than just Atlantic Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Is it your intent to just add to the motion and say “bait in Atlantic Canada and Quebec”?

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I can read the motion as amended. The only change is the addition of the words “and Quebec.”

That the committee undertake a study of at least three meetings to investigate and consider options to address the supply and shortage of herring bait in Atlantic Canada and Quebec and to explore new options for bait such as Asian carp as a replacement for the depleting herring stocks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Basically, the only change is to add “and Quebec”.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

The amendment is based on the original motion. We're simply adding “and Quebec” after “in Atlantic Canada.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Bragdon.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Mr. Chair, thank you.

I have a quick thought on that. It seems we're getting concerns brought from B.C. as well. Rather than specify Atlantic Canada and Quebec, with B.C. now involved, how about we just make it for Canada in general?

I guess they're open to a subamendment. I'm new to this whole process.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We're all still new.

Mr. Hardie.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

On the one hand, I don't disagree with Richard and Gord's idea of including the west coast, but I believe the core of this motion is to study the use of herring as bait and to look for alternatives. I don't think herring are used as bait so much out on the west coast. I would submit that the health of herring stocks out there as forage fish, as Gord says, could be folded into the other study on salmon, because I think that is a critical piece.

I would speak against making it Canada-wide. The issue that we're really diving into out east is quite different.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

It is a matter of urgency in the Atlantic—the Atlantic Ocean, not the Atlantic provinces—and I think if we look at a study there it would help give us a sense of what we can do further on down the line, if it becomes an urgent issue in the Pacific as well. I'm not saying it's not urgent right now in the Pacific, but in terms of the Atlantic, we've had to make a reduction of 18%. I've just consulted with my DFO colleagues and they've said it isn't quite the same urgency in the Pacific yet, but this study will help us in that, if we can figure out what we can do in the Atlantic, it will probably be applicable as well to the Pacific.

This was meant to be the Atlantic Ocean, not the Atlantic provinces. By no means do I want to exclude Quebec. I understand that many Mi'kmaq fishermen from Listuguj, Quebec, are also facing the same problems. I understand that, and I'm okay with the amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Just as a reminder, the discussion right now is on the proposed amendment to add “and Quebec” to the original motion.

Gord.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Yes, I think we can agree that this is focused on bait replacement, and that's what you want to focus the study on. We can debate the health of the stocks on the west coast another time. It's certainly something that we'll discuss.

We're fine with that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We'll vote on the amendment as proposed, adding the words “and Quebec” into the study.

(Amendment agreed to)

Now we'll vote on the original motion as amended.

(Motion as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

I have a motion as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Go ahead when you're ready, sir.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

All right. I move:

That the Committee undertake a study examining the scope and effects of illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing on Canada's fisheries resources and the degradation of those resources caused by illegal, unreported and unregulated;

That the Committee receive witness testimony from the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, the Minister of National Defence, officials from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and the Department of National Defence, and Canadians impacted by illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing;

That the Committee allot no fewer than eight (8) two-hour meetings to receive said testimony;

That the Committee also accept written briefs from individuals or organizations who wish to submit input; and

That the Committee submit its findings with recommendations in a report to the House with a request for a Government Response.

That's my motion.

[A voice]

Can we suspend for a couple of moments, Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay. We'll suspend for a minute.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Everybody has heard the motion and even had some time to discuss it. Is there any discussion?

(Motion agreed to)

Mr. Calkins, go ahead when you're ready.