Evidence of meeting #14 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was first.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Chamberlin.
We're getting that echo sound again, Nancy.
4:15 p.m.
The Clerk
Thank you for letting me know. Do you want to suspend, or do you want to continue, and we'll try to fix it at the same time?
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
I'm getting it from my mike. I don't know why. Is anybody else getting an echo? Yes, the committee members are getting an echo.
We'll suspend for a moment, Nancy, and you can get it checked, please.
4:15 p.m.
The Clerk
Absolutely.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
December 9th, 2020 / 4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you all for being here.
The whole issue here is try to figure out what we have to do to rebuild abundance in those fish stocks. This is not about how we share the catch between all the various interests; this is about making sure that there are more salmon. This is difficult. We have the example, which our chair knows only too well, in Newfoundland, where we're building back stocks of cod after everything was shut down. We're still not back yet, so this is not easy.
There are two things. First of all, we hear you and we've heard so many people express a lack of confidence in the DFO. Therefore, in your opinion, who best, of anybody you can think of, is in the position to lead the effort it's going to take to really get serious about rebuilding our salmon stocks?
I'll throw it wide open. If you have a thought, put your hand up and I'll call on you.
Go ahead, Robert.
4:20 p.m.
Chairman, First Nation Wild Salmon Alliance
I believe first nations are. A lot of these river systems and watersheds are in very remote locations where you will find first nations. There are a lot of cost savings to be enjoyed in the effort, and as well as the traditional ecological knowledge.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
4:20 p.m.
Director of Operations, St’át’imc Chiefs Council
Actually, I would just echo Robert Chamberlain. Basically, if we really want to take a look at reconciliation and implementation of UNDRIP, we need to take a step back and look at where we actually went wrong in regard to the management of land and resources. What was missing was our traditional and ecological knowledge, because for over 15,000 years we had the land and resources that sustained us for generations and generations. It just started collapsing within the last 150 years, so we need to incorporate that, led by indigenous people.
4:20 p.m.
Ahousaht First Nation
Yes, I definitely would. We have offered our help to the department many times, to no avail. They continue along the lines of “We are in charge, we are the ultimate authority, and we are the best managers in the world.” All of it, of course, is proven by the state of our stocks today.
We only have a few thousand years of experience. What people don't think about is that when the newcomers arrived, every stream was a producer. Every river had multiple species that were reproducing, and that was not by accident. First nations were many more in population than even we are today. Those rivers and streams sustained us because of good management.
We know we can help. Just be open to it.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
4:20 p.m.
Vice-President and Tribal Chief, Stolo Tribal Council
In support of us as rights holders being more involved, we do have existing mechanisms that DFO chooses not to empower.
For example, we have 74 communities signed on with the Fraser Salmon Management Council. From there, we have set up the Fraser Salmon Management Board, in partnership with DFO, to actually manage Fraser-bound salmon. However, DFO doesn't fund it appropriately and doesn't populate the committees appropriately, so it's a vehicle without wheels.
We built a vehicle with DFO that needs them or somebody to put some wheels on it and allow us to occupy that space that's described in that agreement.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Ms. Morten, you and I have had chats over, actually, a number of years now out in the Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows area. I know you have been very active on the ground, literally, there.
Regarding one of the concerns that I thought I heard you express some time ago, I want to get the current state. Are there changes taking place at the municipal level or the provincial level that are affecting the ability of streams to support salmon? Have riparian setbacks been changed? Are too many exceptions being allowed? What's going on there at that level that works against us in restoring these stocks?
4:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Pacific Streamkeepers Federation
Well, in Maple Ridge, you have people wanting to build in the flood plain, so that might be part of it. We have riparian area regulations, but the ombudsperson said they were not working, and that was the end of it. We just got the report that it was not working, but nobody looked to try to make them actually work. We have a fisheries act now in place, but we have regulations that are either ignored or not strong enough to do anything.
This week, Beaver Creek in Stanley Park has been drained. We had spawners in there two weeks ago, and now it's without water. If you go to metro Vancouver, you can have, day to day, moment by moment, how many sewage spills are released into the Fraser River and into Keith Creek, which goes into Lynn Creek.
We have fish passage issues. We have all these issues that have paperwork to go along with them to say this isn't going to happen, but it keeps happening.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
You have six seconds. That's hardly time to ask a question and hardly time to get an answer.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
I'll bank that six seconds for somebody else.
We'll now go to Madame Gill for six minutes or less, please.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My thanks to the witnesses for joining us today.
My question is about the First Nations' trust in the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. A number of you have brought that up on several occasions.
I have heard snippets of answers, but I would like you to be able to develop them and talk to us about the reasons that have led to the loss of that trust. Of course, there's the other side of the coin, which is what could be done to regain the trust of the First Nations.
My question goes to all the chiefs, so you can all answer. Take the time to do so.
4:25 p.m.
Director of Operations, St’át’imc Chiefs Council
Mr. Chair, I'd like to go first.
4:25 p.m.
Director of Operations, St’át’imc Chiefs Council
I think what needs to be done in order to have DFO restore confidence is that there needs to be one law for all. Back in 1979, I went fishing down at our fishing rocks. I caught four fish. DFO came in on a helicopter. Three of them knocked me to the ground and charged me for fishing, yet two kilometres down the river, towards Lillooet, there were sport fishermen who were fishing on both sides of the river. DFO didn't come in with their helicopter, knock them to the ground and charge them for fishing.
As well, take a look at the Mount Polley mining disaster. The spill was devastating to the salmon habitat as well as the salmon. This was one of the worst mining disasters in Canada. DFO did not charge Imperial Metals, which owns the mine. As indigenous people, we get charged for catching four fish. Others are not charged.
4:25 p.m.
Chairman, First Nation Wild Salmon Alliance
The long mistrust has been in place ever since the government has consistently disregarded the Supreme Court of Canada rulings. We saw it played out recently with the Mi'kmaq moderate livelihood. I can't remember a time since the Sparrow decision that there has been a true allocation consistent with that Supreme Court law.
I believe the DFO minister now needs to make the proper steps and respect the state of Pacific salmon and make the decisions that will benefit wild salmon without exception. Fulfill the obligations or the commitment for land-based closed containment, and not just with a plan. Remove this known threat that's within reach so that we can then get on with the other aspects of stress to the Pacific salmon.
Thank you.