Evidence of meeting #26 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was farms.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:20 p.m.
Research Scientist, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Well, it's a bit self-serving for me to say so, but yes, I do.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Yes. Well, it seems extremely important. Could you comment? In answer to one my colleagues' earlier questions, you referenced advice that the minister may want to pause something as it relates to fish farming in—I forget where— a sensitive area on the Pacific coast. Could you expand a bit on why you stated that?
5:20 p.m.
Research Scientist, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I believe the question to me was about what I would say if the minister suggested that there was no more than a minimal risk and, therefore, would reverse the decision on the farms in the Discovery Islands. My response was that since the CSAS's were concluded—not very long ago—we have new data. Thus, before we holistically decide on the level of threat that farms pose to our wild populations, we really need to look carefully at that data.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Morrissey.
We will now go to Mr. Blanchette-Joncas for two and half minutes or less, please.
5:20 p.m.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My question is going to be for Dr. Miller-Saunders first, but I'd also like to hear from the other witnesses, if time permits.
As the Pacific salmon study draws to a close, what do you see as the next steps in terms of conservation of salmon populations?
What should be the priority after this study? What do you think the most urgent thing is?
5:20 p.m.
Research Scientist, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I think that we need to get away from the idea that simply pumping out more fish from hatcheries is going to reverse the declines. I think that we need to recognize that the marine environment is where the year class strength for many of these populations is determined, which means that the marine environment is where we need to consider taking the most action.
I think that having mark-selective fisheries for hatchery fish would mean that we would have less fishing pressure on our wild fish, so if there are enough fish to be exploited, then the exploited fish are not our wild stocks.
I think that we need to employ the newest technologies that we can to understand the synergistic and cumulative effects of different kinds of stressors and diseases, as well as the role of prey availability and predator impacts, to make decisions that are informed by models to identify the factors that we can modify anthropogenically to turn things around.
I know that there's a lot of concentration on pinnipeds. My lab actually did some of the work on pinnipeds. The molecular work supporting the diet work was done in my lab. There are many scientists within the DFO who have questions about the numbers that have been generated in terms of the impacts on salmon because a lot of the early studies were focusing mostly on pinnipeds that were feeding in estuaries. However, the vast majority of the pinniped population is not feeding in estuaries. If you can extrapolate what you see in terms of the numbers of salmon that are being consumed in estuaries compared to what is being consumed in all of southern B.C., those numbers may not match up.
I think that we need to be careful. I think that there is a potential that we're looking for the one thing that we can control to blame. I am concerned that we may be misguided in that particular decision.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Blanchette-Joncas.
We'll now go to Mr. Johns to finish up for two and and half minutes, please.
5:25 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Reid, in terms of the government's commitment to reconciliation, case law and the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, my question is this: Will you enact the government to government to government relationship? Will that be actioned in the creation of the Pacific salmon secretariat and restoration centre of expertise?
5:25 p.m.
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We haven't had a chance to consult with indigenous groups yet on what the governance looks like, but we fully intend to work with them as partners. That needs to be developed based on their own ideas and interests, and those discussions need to take place.
5:25 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Okay.
Ms. Miller-Saunders, I agree with Mr. Morrissey. We sure hope that you get the resources that you need to continue your important work.
If the minister approves the transfer of farmed fish into the Discovery Islands, should they be screened for Tenacibaculum, given the low returns?
Could you also explain how the effect of naturally occurring viruses is different from that of viruses coming from fish farms?
5:25 p.m.
Research Scientist, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Well a lot of viruses coming from fish farms are also naturally occurring. We have to be careful about thinking that they are two completely separate things.
In terms of.... I'm sorry. I've just lost track of what your question was.
5:25 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
If the minister approves the transfer of farmed fish back into the Discovery Islands—
5:25 p.m.
Research Scientist, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Tenacibaculum.... Sorry, sorry, sorry.
Tenacibaculum is not going to be an easy one to control because Tenacibaculum is found in marine fish, as well as salmon and farmed fish. It isn't only found in farmed salmon. The issue with farmed salmon is that it may be considerably increased in terms of the abundance of Tenacibaculum released into the water column. Certainly, the early eDNA studies, environmental DNA studies, show that Tenacibaculum is concentrated around farms.
I think that we do need to look again at treatment effects and what we can do in terms of decreasing the loads of that particular bacterium on those farms. As well, our data actually do show that we're seeing Tenacibaculum present in farmed fish before they've moved them out into the ocean. Likely when they are introducing salt water into the hatcheries, they're already introducing that bacterium into their fish.
You know, the easiest way to control... Well, it may not be easy. However, if the water going into a farm and the water exiting a farm was all filtered, you know, like in closed containment systems or systems on land, we wouldn't have any of these problems because sea lice wouldn't infect farmed fish because sea lice would be filtered out of the water column. Therefore, they wouldn't affect our wild fish as well. You could do that with a lot of things like Tenacibaculum. Viruses will be harder, but the fact of the matter is that if farmed fish were less stressed, if they weren't stressed by sea lice and all the treatments and everything associated them, they wouldn't have the same potential to develop disease. Disease wouldn't ensue to the same degree if we controlled what comes in and what goes out of farms.
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
That expires all of our time for today's committee meeting.
I want to thank the departmental officials for appearing before the committee today. I agree with that comments by committee members that it's been probably one of the most informative meetings we've had on this subject for quite some time.
Thank you to everybody for playing their part in providing the committee with that valuable information.
I remind everybody that we're back again on Wednesday. A big thank you to the clerks, analysts and our translation people.
I wish everybody a good evening.
The meeting is adjourned.