Fisheries Committee on June 2nd, 2021

[Timothy Sargent]

I don't have a lot to add to that, Mr. Chair. We finished our check-in on this recently. We're reviewing and developing the listing advice now

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

We also heard witnesses talk about the lack of scientific resources to properly make decisions on a smaller scale.

Should the department establish—let's get innovative—a research chair for Pacific salmon, for example, to ensure that British Columbia has enough resources and scientists to make good resource conservation decisions? Is that a possibility?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Our government has invested heavily in renewing science after it was cut under the previous Conservative government. I think we have hired more that 140 scientists at DFO directly since 2015. We are going to continue to work to get the best science available to make these decisions, because we know that is how we have to do it.

I will say that in British Columbia, and actually on this call, we have some of the best scientists around in terms of having the best possible science to make these decisions when it comes to fisheries management.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Trudel.

We'll now go to Mr. Johns for two and a half minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

Minister, thank you for appearing today at committee. I appreciate your being here.

Minister, you supported my motion M-151 in 2018 to combat plastic pollution. Within that motion is combatting industrial use of plastics. We know how important the shellfish industry is to our economy, but in terms of future sustainability, the amount of plastics used in the industry is growing right now. Now it's our understanding that there are geoduck applications coming forward in the form of PVC tubes. These tubes break down, releasing toxins and microplastic particles that can permanently contaminate waters where shellfish are grown, where our food supply is coming from and where herring and salmon are spawned and reared.

What are you going to do to ensure that PVC and other types of plastic chemicals aren't being given industrial use in our oceans?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Johns.

I agree with you that we have to take the use of plastics seriously. As I said, I supported your motion. We know how important it is to get plastics out of our oceans. It's something I am committed to working with all of you to do.

I think I would like to have a further conversation with you about this, if that's possible—

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Yes.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

—at a later time. I think it is something we do have to make sure we're addressing, because the fishery has to be sustainable for the long term. We need to make sure we're not only conserving and protecting but also growing things to abundance. In order to do that, we have to make sure we have the best practices in place.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

One area of the motion that the government hasn't really taken action on is the industrial use of plastics.

Minister, going back to the emerging science I talked about around Tenacibaculum and the PRV sea lice that has been science journal peer reviewed, and acting in accordance with the precautionary principle to safeguard B.C.'s critically low salmon runs, what are you going to do in terms of...? Keeping in mind, obviously, that the precautionary principle is to be implemented in the absence of conclusive science and that there is no fish farm policy to guide this—so it's really at your level of decision-making—how will the department implement the inclusion of first nations in the external advisory committee mentioned in the budget for salmon restoration?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I think indigenous knowledge is going to be critical as we go forward. As I said earlier to MP Battiste, first nations are the stewards of the land and of the water. They are the ones who are committed to conservation. We all have to be.

Having said that, I think they will play a significant role in our centre of expertise in making sure we have the proper consultation, because indigenous knowledge is going to be a driving part of this salmon strategy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Johns. We'll now go to Mr. Calkins for five minutes or less.

Go ahead, please.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Mr. Chair, I'm going to give my time to Mr. Zimmer from British Columbia.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Zimmer, you have five minutes or less. Go ahead, please.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Calkins, Mr. Chair and Minister.

Going back to the sport fishing advisory board and the questions I was posing to you before I ran out of time, this is from the B.C. government, once again:

We also encourage DFO to implement some of the specific fishery proposals that have been put forward that balance conservation with harvest opportunities, where possible, including those Mark Selective Fishing opportunities recommended by the Sport Fishing Advisory Board.

I'm going to read a document from the SFAB. This is their warning and advice to the ministry:

In order to sustain both wild Chinook stocks of concern and the recreational (and potentially other) fisheries it is critically important that DFO make the policy decision as soon as possible to implement mass marking (MM) of hatchery origin Chinook in BC to enable widespread mark-selective fishery (MSF) management when non-selective management poses too high a risk to stocks of concern.

Minister, when are you going to implement a selective fishery in B.C.?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Zimmer.

As I have said, we have put a pilot program in place with regard to a mark-selective fishery. There needs to be more work done, absolutely, when it comes to making sure that they are not going to impact the stocks of concern. We are working on that now. We have put in place areas where there can be a mark-selective fishery, and I—

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Minister, you talk about a framework. You've talked about a framework for different things before, but in fairness, you haven't stated a framework for implementing a selective fishery in B.C. It's a big thing. It's going to take some work to do. That's what the Department of Fisheries and Oceans should be working on as we speak, based on Cohen commission recommendations and other advice.

Let me just read another quote from the SFAB.

The SFAB cannot overstate the urgency of the situation and the critical need to implement Chinook mass-marking as soon as possible. The recreational fishery infrastructure simply cannot survive widespread Chinook non-retention from April into July, and perhaps longer, around much of the inner south coast on an annual basis. We know from biosampling programs (Avid Anglers and other catch sampling opportunities) that significant numbers of hatchery origin Chinook are present in the Salish Sea during this time, we simply need a way for anglers to identify them in order to sustain both the fishery and unenhanced Chinook stocks of concern.

Minister, we need a better answer than just doing a test this summer. When are you going to implement a full-on selective fishery in B.C.?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

We need to have the data on a mark-selective fishery. That's why there is a pilot program. Your colleagues have talked about science, and we need to make decisions based on data. That's what we're doing right now. The decision on a mark-selective fishery will happen once we have the proper data that shows it does not impact the stocks of concern.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

With respect, Minister, there's data that has been already provided to you from the SFAB and many others. We have examples in the states of Washington and Oregon that have already gone through this process, and they're functional today.

I have one more quote from the SFAB.

It should be noted that because of sufficiently high mark rates the opportunity exists now to implement MSF management for Chinook at certain times. As a generalization these potential opportunities occur around the south end of Vancouver Island and into the lower Strait of Georgia in the winter to late May period, enabled by the presence of significant numbers of US (and therefore adipose fin-clipped) hatchery origin Chinook.

Minister, you have the data. Why don't you just do it?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

As I have said, there are stocks of concern that we have to be aware of. Conservation always has to be our priority. Right now, a mark-selective fishery does not allow for fishing in an area where there are stocks of concern.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

That's why it's called a selective fishery, Minister. You can selectively not catch the stocks of concern.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I'm well aware of why it's called a selective fishery, Mr. Zimmer.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Pardon me?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I said I'm well aware of why it's called a mark-selective fishery.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

With all the data that's been presented to you by the experts you call on to give you advice.... They've even offered that this can be done now. This can be established right now, and yet we hear stalling after stalling after stalling examples from the department about establishing a selective fishery. Even the ability to have machines that mark fish has been turned down, we've understood.

Minister, there have been many opportunities for you to get to an easy “yes” answer on this issue. There's a lot of evidence, a lot of data. A lot of B.C. fishing families are frankly relying upon a good decision based on data, based on science that you yourself have solicited, and you're just simply not listening to it because you want to still prevent it from happening, for some reason.

I just need a clear answer. If you're not going to listen to the data provided, what is it going to take?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Actually, Mr. Zimmer, you've gone way over time, so the time for an answer is well past.

I'll now go to Mr. Hardie for five minutes or less, please.