Evidence of meeting #14 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was containers.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Satinder Singh  Vice-President, Marine Operations and Harbour Master, Nanaimo Port Authority
Shri Madiwal  Director, Marine Operations and Harbour Master, Vancouver Fraser Port Authority
Karen Wristen  Executive Director, Living Oceans Society
Lucas Harris  Executive Director, Surfrider Foundation Canada
Alys Hoyland  Youth Coordinator, Pacific Rim Chapter, Surfrider Foundation Canada

11:55 a.m.

Director, Marine Operations and Harbour Master, Vancouver Fraser Port Authority

Shri Madiwal

That's an excellent question, Clifford.

This is an issue that was bothering all of the global community of container carriers, and also the safety of the container vessels.

I believe it was about six or seven years ago when IMO implemented the mandatory weighing of all containers. You will know that the container vessels are generally top heavy, so that also creates some stability issues. To ensure the stability and the safety of the vessel and the crew, it was important that all the containers be weighed before loading. All of that is included in the plan and has been verified ashore. Also, after loading, the master has to verify that the vessel is safe for a voyage.

Noon

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Thank you, Mr. Small. There are 10 seconds left on the clock. We'll use that somewhere along the way.

That brings us to the end of our first hour of testimony.

I want to say thank you to Captain Madiwal and Captain Singh for appearing before the committee today, albeit virtually versus being here in person. We appreciate your appearance, and I'm sure that everybody has been enlightened by the knowledge you've shared here today.

Noon

Director, Marine Operations and Harbour Master, Vancouver Fraser Port Authority

Shri Madiwal

Thank you, Chair.

Noon

Vice-President, Marine Operations and Harbour Master, Nanaimo Port Authority

Satinder Singh

Thank you.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

We'll recess for a couple of moments now to change to our next panel of witnesses before we begin questioning.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

We're back.

I will remind everyone that interpretation services are available for this meeting. Please inform me immediately if interpretation is lost and we'll ensure it is restored before resuming.

The “raise hand” feature at the bottom of the screen can be used at any time if you wish to speak to or alert the chair.

One thing I'd like to remind people is that when you are ready to speak, click on the microphone icon to activate your mike, and please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

As a reminder to participants, it is not permitted to take screenshots or photos of your screen.

I'd now like to welcome our witnesses.

From the Living Ocean Society, we have Karen Wristen, executive director. From the Surfrider Foundation of Canada, we have Lucas Harris, executive director; and Alys Hoyland, youth coordinator, Pacific Rim chapter.

We'll now hear opening remarks from Ms. Wristen, for five minutes or less, please.

Noon

Karen Wristen Executive Director, Living Oceans Society

Thank you, Chair.

With apologies to the interpreter, I realized this morning my notes are too long by half, so I'm going to speed through some of the initial remarks I was going to make.

Today, I'd like to review some of legal and economic drivers behind the dramatic increase in container losses in recent years and touch on some of the risks these have posed for B.C. waters that we find unacceptable and controllable, and finally propose some solutions for the committee's consideration.

Very briefly, the international regime governing container ship traffic is outdated. It was created in 1924 and has not been upgraded to reflect modern concepts of liability, of consequences for negligence, or the risks posed by the type of cargo that's now being carried to the ocean. Canada has been a bit of a laggard in this respect in that there have been several attempts to improve and update the rules. We are not a signatory to those.

Between the existing legal regime that minimizes liability for the ship's carrier and the economic pressures to deliver more goods faster, we can expect that without any intervention the number of container spills is only going to increase. This poses risks for the ocean, its inhabitants and coastal communities. They're bearing risks that properly belong to the shippers and the carriers. Once a container is lost at sea, unless it's posing a hazard to navigation, it's lost. Nothing is done to recover it, primarily because we can't track it. Modern technology could solve that problem.

The risks that are borne by the ocean and coastal communities are nearly impossible to qualify or quantify, largely because little is known about what's being carried aboard the container ship. The manifests aren't required to provide detail on the nature of the goods and the risks they pose for the ocean, with the sole exception of those listed as dangerous or hazardous and noxious substances. In the case of these goods, there doesn't appear to be any limit on the danger that can be mixed in with more benign cargo. The provisions for safe stowage of that cargo are purely voluntary.

The Zim spill provided us with three examples of what can go wrong in such a regime. First of all, it was carrying chemicals capable of spontaneous combustion when exposed to moisture on an open deck. There's nothing in the rules or codes of conduct to prevent this, but it beggars belief that such a casual approach to the carriage of highly volatile chemicals and to the property of others could actually be part of an internationally accepted regime.

It's fortunate that there was no loss of life as a result of the fire on board the Zim Kingston, and it's also fortunate the ship didn't break up or damage the property of other shippers. This is solely due to the fortuitous presence of two salvage tugs with the pumping capacity capable of keeping the ship cooled while the fire burned out.

The first shortcoming demonstrated by the Zim spill is that we have neither the rules to prevent toxic chemical releases, fires or explosions nor the equipment to deal with them when they occur.

The second shortcoming exposed by the Zim incident is that we really have no idea what to expect from the missing sunken containers. Two of them are known to contain a chemical that is acutely toxic to aquatic organisms, and we have no idea where they are or what condition the cargo is in, and 102 of the containers are simply mysteries. We're told that the manifest, which is not made public, describes the cargo only in the most general sense. We have no means of assessing the size or nature of the risk that has been consigned to the ocean. How, then, are we to begin to hold the polluter to account for the risk or to plan and pay for a response when those sunken containers break up and release their content?

The third problem exposed by the Zim spill is that Canada has no container spill response plan, no trained workforce to respond and no policy on cleanup end-points.

In short, there is a policy vacuum where container spills are concerned. In that void, the ship's owner retained an agent with no shoreline salvage experience, no knowledge of the local terrain, infrastructure or response assets, and gave him command of the entire operation. That agent decided to prioritize the removal of goods that were still contained in a beached container over the goods that were strewn all over the beach. That choice is largely responsible for the fact that debris is now strewn on every beach from Haida Gwaii to Tofino, at the very least.

The mindset that gave rise to the above choice is at least consistent with the nature of the whole international scheme governing carriage. Whatever is already spilled is lost and gone forever. What's still contained is potentially salvage at best, and at worst, removing it will prevent further loss.

What's entirely missing from this approach to spill response is a focus on preventing damage to the ocean and to the life that depends most directly on it. The spilled cargo posed a real and immediate threat of widespread plastic and other more toxic pollution, damage to coastal communities and damage to the wildlife that did not even register in the priority-making process.

That is the policy void that I hope this committee will seek to fill.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Thank you, Ms. Wristen. The time has expired for your opening remarks. If you've provided your opening remarks to the committee, we have them in writing. If not, if you would do that, we'd appreciate it.

We'll now go to Mr. Harris for five minutes or less, please.

12:10 p.m.

Lucas Harris Executive Director, Surfrider Foundation Canada

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Hello, members of the standing committee. My name is Lucas Harris. I'm the executive director of Surfrider Foundation Canada.

I live in Victoria, B.C., and I acknowledge with respect the territory of the Lekwungen-speaking peoples. I'm meeting with you today from San Clemente, California, the traditional territory of the Acjachemen people.

Surfrider Foundation is a non-profit grassroots organization dedicated to the protection and the enjoyment of the world's ocean, waves and beaches for all people through a powerful activist network. Based in British Columbia, Surfrider Foundation Canada is part of the global Surfrider community of international affiliates located in Argentina, Australia, Europe, Japan, Senegal and the United States.

Surfrider is a non-profit corporation and a registered charity in Canada and currently has three local volunteer-led grassroots chapters in Tofino and Ucluelet—that's the Pacific Rim chapter—and also in Victoria, which is known as the Vancouver Island chapter, and in Vancouver as well. The organization also supports two youth school clubs at the University of Victoria and Ucluelet Secondary School.

So far, our focus is on addressing several key coastal environmental issues, including plastics reduction, ocean protection, beach access, coastal preservation and water quality, but most relevant to the issue of marine cargo container spills is our work on ocean protection and defending the oceans from challenges threatening the vitality of the ecosystems.

Our ocean faces growing challenges from pollution, habitat loss, development and climate change. If that wasn't enough, shipping threatens to crowd our oceans and degrade the health of the ecosystem due to the impact of cargo container spills and the debris they create.

Surfrider Foundation Canada works to protect our ocean and address dangers to it. Today and in the future, our ocean protection initiative includes mobilizing grassroots campaigns to respond to the cleanup needs associated with marine cargo container spills and participating in regional ocean planning.

I'll now pass this off to my colleague, Alys Hoyland.

12:10 p.m.

Alys Hoyland Youth Coordinator, Pacific Rim Chapter, Surfrider Foundation Canada

Thanks, Lucas.

My name is Alys Hoyland. I'm the youth program coordinator of the Pacific Rim chapter of Surfrider Foundation Canada. I've been leading the organization's response to marine cargo container spills. I'm grateful to live within the traditional and unceded territories of the Tla-o-qui-aht First Nation here in Tofino.

The full impact of container spills is hard to determine. The immediate ramifications of spills which happen in nearshore environments are the most tangible: solid waste polluting shorelines, entanglement of and injury to fauna and navigational hazards to boaters from floating debris.

However, spills that happen on the open ocean also have damaging consequences to shorelines and coastal ecosystems. Containers and their cargo, particularly plastics, can persist in the marine environment for decades, if not centuries, and circulate in ocean currents, absorbing pollutants and eventually making landfall.

Surfrider Canada has been on the front lines of marine debris mitigation efforts in B.C. for many years, including container spill response. In 2016, the Hanjin Seattle lost 35 empty containers near the mouth of Juan de Fuca Strait. Fragments of containers and their plastic foam insulation lined the west coast of Vancouver Island.

The response was slow and debris was spreading, so Surfrider mobilized volunteers, liaising with various government agencies and first nations partners to execute debris removal efforts. Seven months later, some compensation was eventually obtained from Hanjin, but it was in no way commensurate to the scale that was required.

The magnitude of resources necessary to tackle this kind of spill demonstrated the urgent need for federal support, and Surfrider welcomed the development of motion 151, a national strategy to combat marine plastic pollution, which was to include the creation of annual dedicated [Technical difficulty—Editor].

In the wake of Zim Kingston, it's become clear that there is still considerable work to do to close the legislative gaps identified after Hanjin.

After hearing of the spill in 2021, Surfrider immediately began liaising with the Canadian Coast Guard and the BC Marine Debris Working Group. Our network has a long history of collaboration, and we had volunteer resources ready to deploy within days of the initial spill. Unfortunately, it was weeks before our group was tasked, and at that point king tides had refloated much of the spilled debris, distributing it over an increasingly large geographic area.

Furthermore, wind and wave action had already disintegrated some of the debris. Without a public manifest of lost cargo, given the extensive stretch of coastline affected we had serious concerns about how to accurately identify and monitor the spread of the debris in order to hold the responsible parties accountable for the full cost of cleanup.

To mitigate the impact of container spills in the coastal environment, it's essential to find ways to prevent spills, but when they do occur, Surfrider Canada is providing three recommendations for the committee to consider.

The first is to increase the response capacity in relation to marine cargo container spills, which must include the knowledge, skills and equipment necessary to address cleanup—

12:15 p.m.

Bloc

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

Sorry to interrupt you, Ms. Hoyland.

I must congratulate the interpreter, because he's doing an outstanding job. Some comments are slipping by us and the interpreter can hardly catch his breath because of the fast pace.

Ms. Hoyland, I won't take up your time. Your remarks are so valuable. I would love to be able to understand you. However, unfortunately, I'm missing a number of things. If you could slow down the pace, it would make our job easier.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

I think that has just been asked, so there's no need for me to repeat it, but, again, you have about 15 seconds left on your time of five minutes.

Please remember to talk slowly for the interpreters who are trying to keep up. They do their best, and they're doing a fantastic job.

12:15 p.m.

Youth Coordinator, Pacific Rim Chapter, Surfrider Foundation Canada

Alys Hoyland

My apologies, I'll speak more slowly.

Essentially, I'd just like to leave you with the recommendations that Surfrider Canada would like to put forward. Primarily they are to increase low response capacity in relation to marine container spills; implement a marine debris monitoring and management plan that adequately addresses all forms of marine debris impacting coastlines; and also to provide greater transparency on the contents of marine container spills and increase accountability to parties that are responsible.

Thank you.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Thank you. We'll now go to our questioning.

I'll go to Mr. Perkins first for six minutes or less, please.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Thank you, witnesses. Those are both fascinating presentations.

We certainly sympathize with the need to try to get everything in that you want to get in when you have limited time. With that in mind, my first question will be for Ms. Wristen.

I don't think you had a chance to talk about your solutions in your presentation. I'm really looking forward to hearing the rest of it, so I'm wondering if you could elaborate on that portion of your presentation, please.

12:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Living Oceans Society

Karen Wristen

Certainly. Thank you for the question.

I'm getting terrible feedback. Is the committee hearing that as well? No? All right.

When we found with the international oil spill regime that it was likely the international agreements didn't provide enough compensation to pay for the likely cost of spills and cleanup, Canada set about creating its own fund, a supplementary system to support cleanup efforts. They imposed a small levy on the volume of oil being transmitted through Canadian ports, and they created the oil spill pollution fund.

That's exactly the kind of approach we're recommending taking here. It has the benefit of spreading the risk that is currently borne by the ocean and by coastal communities and spreading it out over a vast number of players. The number of containers being shipped through our ports is huge. The levy would only need to be quite small in order to create a substantial fund that could then be used to fund and create a permanent joint spill response task force. When I say “joint”, I mean joint with the first nations on whose territory these spills occur, the federal government and the provincial government.

This has to be done co-operatively with all jurisdictions, because all jurisdictions are fully engaged in dealing with the sequela of a spill. Such a force would need to be tasked with creating geographic response plans, planning the response timelines, setting policy for response objectives, end-points of the cleanup, if you will. It needs to recruit, train, equip and drill a workforce that's capable of responding to spills quickly, and to develop the infrastructure that's needed to support that task force, because there is virtually no infrastructure in most of these remote areas that are impacted by the spills.

There's also work that needs to be done at the international level, and that is to modernize the shipping regime. It is unacceptable that it continues to provide virtually no liability. In the face of economic drivers that are creating larger ships that are less seaworthy, in the face of increasing Pacific storms, we absolutely need some intervention here to update that regime. It's going to take years and co-operation of trade partners, for sure, but Canada can play a leading role in that, and I believe we should. Work needs to be done at both the IMO and the United Nations Environment Programme where we could work on eliminating expanded polystyrene foam as a packing material, certainly in the case of anything being shipped by marine container.

Finally, we need response equipment that's commensurate with the size of the ships that are using our ports and the nature of the cargo. This is a point we made throughout the hearings into the pipelines that were scheduled for Vancouver and the central coast. We just don't have—

12:20 p.m.

Bloc

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Ms. Wristen, could I ask you to raise the boom on your headset a little bit higher? We're getting a lot of crackling through the sound system.

12:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Living Oceans Society

Karen Wristen

Thank you.

I was just making my final point. We need to upgrade the response assets that we have here. The tugs that were retained by the federal government to deal with spill response were clearly not sufficiently powered to deal with the fire on board the Zim Kingston. That could have been a disaster of incredible proportion had the Maersk tugs not been been available to put that fire out.

This is something we need to turn our attention to for all modes of shipping, that we have the towing and salvage capacity and the firefighting capacity required by the types of cargo being sent through our ports.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Okay. Thank you very much.

I think I have about a minute left, so I'll go to this question.

We've heard testimony that the liability is only up to six years for container spills within our waters. Obviously, we don't track or know where a lot of the containers are when they come off, as you mentioned. What technology and what changes would you make to the liability issue so that as this develops, we have a greater ability to pursue the companies and their insurance companies for these spills?

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Please give a short answer.

12:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Living Oceans Society

Karen Wristen

A short answer...?

Increasing the liability insurance is obviously the easiest and first move to make. The assignment of liability, though, created under the Hague-Visby rules that currently govern shipping—that needs to change, because the shipowners are not liable for errors of seamanship, and they should be. The equipment they have to predict weather is equipment that they didn't have in 1924, when these rules were made. They should take on a greater liability so as to take greater care with their cargo.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Hardie for six minutes or less, please.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses.

Ms. Wristen, I'm sorry; I'm looking through the notes, and I don't have the identification of your organization. Who do you belong to?