Evidence of meeting #37 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was whales.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
To summarize, there could be actions taken in the areas based on the presence of whales. As I understand it, we are starting to get a better understanding of their behaviour.
What do you think about the more fragile ropes and ghost gear that will be added at the bottom of the gulf?
4:20 p.m.
General Manager, Association des crabiers acadiens
As I was saying earlier, we are currently testing weak link rope. We will have to wait for the results of the tests before we can analyze that gear objectively. However, we already know that, as the test show, this rope is probably completely inappropriate for raising traps the size of crab traps, for example, or that it is inappropriate in places where there is high pressure on the ropes because of weather conditions. We are sure about that. In addition, we believe that the tests funded by the department have to be done, and then we will wait to see the results and act based on the results obtained.
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you.
We'll now go to Ms. Barron for six minutes or less, please.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Thank you, Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses for being here today.
My first question is for Mr. Muise.
I was very concerned listening to you share how the plastic was exploding in fishers' faces as the traps were being pulled up. You were also commenting on the number of traps lost and that only some were coming to the surface. It's all very problematic and concerning to me.
I'm wondering if you're seeing, or hearing from others who are seeing, an increased amount of plastic or ghost gear found in the ocean as a result of what you're describing.
4:20 p.m.
Director and Captain, Brazil Rock 33/34 Lobster Association
No, not at this time, as we haven't implemented this weak rope or these weak links yet. I can say that every piece of plastic that made it to the surface and exploded into the block or hauler fractured and has the potential to hurt one of my men.
I think this will only get worse as the water cools off and that plastic becomes more brittle. Keep in mind that I was hauling this type of gear last week in 60-degree water. As our winter fishery gets going, that water will drop to 38°F or below, and I believe that plastic will then be even more compromised and more brittle. I'm just going by what I have tested.
My colleagues have been testing all summer as well, and they had already determined that some of it was not going to make its way to my boat because of safety. We chose not to test some of the stuff because of danger to my crew.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
That is very concerning; I would agree. There's the safety of your crew, and then of course, as you're stating, there's the increased amount of plastic in our oceans and the impacts on our marine ecosystems. It's all very concerning.
I'm wondering if you're being provided with a mechanism to give feedback on this around your experience and what you're seeing. Other than sharing with us today, is there a mechanism for you to be able to share your concerns?
4:25 p.m.
Director and Captain, Brazil Rock 33/34 Lobster Association
Not me, no. We have an association that has partnered with a university and we'll be writing a report as soon as the testing is done. I plan to test the weak rope and weak links during the season and, further to that, get some more data from those trials.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Do you have any suggestions at all, based on your experience, on how this whalesafe gear could be improved upon to make it more functional and safer for your crew?
4:25 p.m.
Director and Captain, Brazil Rock 33/34 Lobster Association
I've given it some thought throughout the summer, and from everything I've seen, I think we can't be hauling plastics and weak links like that. We could develop a rope, as Heather spoke about earlier, but it's hard for a rope manufacturer to design a rope that's going to work in our LFA because of the time of year, the tides and the size of the sea. In my opinion, that's the only way I see this moving forward.
Ropeless gear will not work in our LFA because of the tides and because I need a visual. We're a thousand fishermen in LFA 34, and I have to see my colleagues' traps and the end of the trawl. We mark our northern end with a red balloon and our southern end with a yellow balloon. That's information I need; I have to see that. If I can't see that, I'll be setting my traps over top of theirs. The chance of not retrieving the trawl is great, or we could hurt someone. We try to avoid setting on top of people's traps, so we need to see the traps.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Do you think it's worthwhile...? We spoke to and heard from witnesses in our previous study who were talking about the whalesafe gear adoption fund and the importance of continuing that fund so that we can better understand what gear is working and how it's best working.
What are your thoughts on that? How can we continue to better understand the implementation of whalesafe gear while also considering the impacts on people who are on the water trying to make a living?
4:25 p.m.
Director and Captain, Brazil Rock 33/34 Lobster Association
We should extend the fund or extend the timeline in which it will be implemented. I think we've heard across the testimony that none of it has worked so far. I'd hate to try something and risk having all this ghost gear.
When I say significant, I mean significant. The potential of losing 50% of your traps on the first day is a real possibility, not to mention the thousands of pounds of trapped lobster and the impact on the economy. This has to be done right.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Ms. Barron.
We'll now go to Mr. Arnold for five minutes or less, please.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses today.
I think everyone involved wants to see the right whales protected and to end these entanglements and other causes of death.
I want to start off with Mr. Haché, if I could.
Mr. Haché, has the department shared any information with your organization regarding real-time tracking of whales in order to reduce the closure times or area closures that are taking place?
4:30 p.m.
General Manager, Association des crabiers acadiens
No, we haven't had much discussion on this because from what I understand, it's very difficult to put a device on the whales that will stay on them so you can follow them. That's one of the points.
We've been testing some intelligent buoys. If those buoys get entangled in rope with a whale, they send real-time messages. That is an improvement in terms of mitigating the entanglements and allowing rescuers to liberate a whale.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
If I understand that correctly, those buoys would be triggered if they were being towed by an entangled whale, and that would set off a signal. Is that correct? Could you elaborate further?
4:30 p.m.
General Manager, Association des crabiers acadiens
No. The buoys themselves communicate constantly or maybe every five or 15 minutes. They send a signal that the skipper gets on his phone. For instance, he knows that if the buoy is moving more than, let's say, 300 feet from its mooring, there's something happening with it. It's being pulled by either a boat or a whale. That's a tool that exists but it's still at the testing stage. It is a very expensive little ball. Let's put it that way.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
I'll carry on with you, Mr. Haché.
We've heard that protection measures will need to be permanent and ongoing. With that, what are the estimated values of reduced harvests between 2021 and 2022? With these larger closure zones, how much of that impact would be felt, and how much of it would be ongoing if these permanent measures are put in place?
4:30 p.m.
General Manager, Association des crabiers acadiens
I can only speak for the midshore fleet, because it is the main fleet with the highest allocation of quota. It is the fleet that has problems catching its quota when there are very large, extensive closures.
In 2022, there were about 35 midshore enterprises that left snow crab in the water, and the amount was maybe between 10% and 20% of their allocation. However, this is something that varies from year to year, and we cannot put a definite amount on it. We've seen problems with catching the quota—
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you. I want to try to get one more quick question in for some of the others, if I can.
This is for Ms. Mulock and possibly Mr. Fleck.
In looking at how the U.S. and Canada are addressing the issue of protecting right whales, can you give me any indication of what Canadian harvesters are being required to do that U.S. harvesters may not be required to do?
4:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Brazil Rock 33/34 Lobster Association
Presently in LFAs 33 and 34, there are tracers that identify the rope that's unique to LFAs 33 and 34. I know that is being done here. I am not sure if that is being performed in the U.S.
4:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Coldwater Lobster Association
I can add a bit to that as well.
I'm not sure if I can compare what we do to what is being done in the U.S., but right now in LFA 34, which, as I mentioned, is the largest LFA, we have a maximum distance between our pots of 30 fathoms, which is 180 feet. We have a 3.5:1 ratio, so the length of rope used to attach the fishing gear—the anchor to the trap to the primary buoy—cannot exceed the 3:1 ratio. That's based on the depth you're fishing. We have also introduced a maximum distance, 10 fathoms, between the buoys—the primary buoys to the vertical line.
Again, I'm not sure if I can compare that accurately to what the U.S. is doing, but those are some of the regulations within our fishing conditions at this moment.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Arnold.
We'll now clew up this first hour with Mr. Kelloway for five minutes or less.
October 25th, 2022 / 4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Mike Kelloway Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My first question is for Ms. Mulock, and my second question will be for each one of you, so it will have to be short answers. We'll try to make that work.
Ms. Mulock, I just saw a story in The Canadian Press on the North Atlantic right whale. It showed that the trajectory of the loss of the species has slowed but the trend is still worrisome.
With that in mind, what more can be done, do you think, to protect this endangered species? We've heard about this a lot in the testimony we've had so far, but how do we do it in a way where we're working with harvesters to ensure their success?
4:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Coldwater Lobster Association
Well, I think the whalesafe gear fund that DFO announced last year is a good start.
Harvesters are the end-users of these products, and we need to make sure they're safe for everyone on the water. Some of the safety concerns we've seen during our trials are quite scary. We had to pull some of the innovations very early on because there was a fear that the crew would be severely injured or, unfortunately, killed. Those are two of the innovations. Some of the captains actually had their crew hiding behind plastic fish boxes for additional protection.
We really can't stress enough that every area is different. At least in LFA 34, for cold water, I've listed everything we've tested. We've come up with one thing that we think may work, but there are still underlying issues.
One of the weak ropes we're using, which NOAA does not acknowledge or approve as a gear innovation because it doesn't consistently break between 1,700 pounds, is leaded, and as it goes through the hauler, lead is shattered and goes in every direction. It's not just a safety concern. There's also an ecological concern. Here in Nova Scotia, if I'm doing recreational fishing, I'm not permitted to use a lead weight on my line, yet we're going to potentially introduce a leaded rope. These fishing boats were covered in lead. If any of that lead gets in the live wells—most of our boats in LFA 34 have live wells—it would kill the catch.
I think a continuous fund for whalesafe gear is the way to go, with further monitoring as well. We have gliders out there in real time. I'm not sure how accurate they are, but having other hydrophones is not useful because they're not giving us accurate data in real time. That data has to be extracted and then provided to data analysts.
I think allowing harvesters to continue trying is the way we have to go forward.