Fisheries Committee on Nov. 25th, 2022

[Luc LeBlanc]

It's definitely more difficult to qualify for employment insurance if there are fewer fishing days on the water, obviously. It's been difficult this year. I haven't heard of any direct problems as of now, but we're fresh off of fishing season.

In general, the comments from fishermen are that things are changing. The nature of seasons is changing. They're getting either shorter or longer, depending on the species. Definitely, we'll need to take a look at that in terms of employment insurance. It will affect people's ability to qualify for the program, obviously.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I also heard something about the lab testing. I know that we have a shortage of labour all around. I guess you're also reliant on other peripheral industries, such as labs, so that's very interesting.

Mr. LeBlanc, you mentioned the storm surge and the seawalls. I'm wondering if you could tell me a little bit about how that funding was planned for and administered on the projects that are working on protecting from storm surge. It's federal programs that I guess I'm really more interested in hearing about.

[Luc LeBlanc]

These were programs that were put in place maybe seven or eight years ago. These were pretty significant investments made across Atlantic Canada.

In my neck of the woods—or my neck of the sea, I should say—there's been some pretty significant investment in wharves in southeastern New Brunswick. They've really proven to be quite effective in protecting the livelihoods of fishing communities, in the sense that a fishing vessel is somebody's livelihood. Without a fishing vessel, there's no money to be made.

We were really fortunate—I'm not going to use the word lucky—that we had virtually no damage to vessels where these investments were made. This is a long process, obviously. There's still a lot to be done. I would really like to stress the effectiveness of these investments.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Was there any ROI done on the savings? You said vessels were saved. Is there any opportunity to do some ROI on that, to look at the investment made and how much it saved the communities?

[Luc LeBlanc]

That's a good question. I can't answer that question, to be honest. That would definitely be an interesting project.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Zarrillo. Your time is up.

We'll now go to Mr. Perkins for five minutes or less, please.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, witnesses.

I was interested in some of the comments, in particular around the state of the southeast New Brunswick wharf infrastructure. My riding and the one next to it probably have more wharves per square mile than any part in Canada. It's the south shore of Nova Scotia and the western shore of Nova Scotia.

DFO estimates that it's going to take $700 million to get them up to operational efficiency. In New Brunswick southeast, for some reason those are are in a really good state of repair, at 60%. Did that happen when the minister of fisheries represented that area?

Mr. LeBlanc, would you comment?

[Luc LeBlanc]

I'm not sure of the exact timing. I think it might have started a little bit before that, maybe 10 years ago. That did occur since 2015, yes. It's also a long-term project.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Mallet, I've found that in my riding—I think this is true in most places—a lot of the wharf managers are volunteers. They are under a lot of pressure already from fishermen about who gets what spot and the state of the wharf. We seem to go through a lot of them. I don't envy them their job in balancing those local politics and pressures.

Now with the state of what's happened as a result of Fiona and the state of some of those wharves, are we going to have trouble finding people to continue to manage these wharves, both the small craft harbour ones and also the ones that have been devolved?

[Martin Mallet]

It's already an issue. We have the same volunteers on these wharf authorities as we have on own fishing councils within the MFU and other associations.

One recommendation that I'm hearing a lot from our volunteers is that they would need extra funds, maybe from DFO, to help them with the operation of the small craft harbour port authorities. Everything is costing more these days, especially with this inflation that we have right now.

That could be one thing, moving forward, that could help us hire some people to help these port authorities do some of the legwork and not just leave it all in the hands of volunteers.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Mallet, I would like to turn to a question. After Fiona, you and I talked about the immediate short-term need at the time. At the time, we thought it was for extending the season in LFA 25, but a few days later, I think when the fishermen saw the state of the gear, that was not a viable option. You were looking for programs not only for income support but for gear replacement.

Have you seen any money on gear replacement? For that matter, have you seen any money flowing that you're aware of to repair the wharves that were damaged in P.E.I., Nova Scotia and New Brunswick?

[Martin Mallet]

No, there are no programs that we've seen yet that are particularly focused on helping out fishermen with this recent storm. Now we're hearing that some discussions are in progress within DFO and ACOA, for instance, and in some cases with some of the provinces, but for us, our next step is to put some time in there to see what we can get out of it and see how we can collaborate with the government to put together a program that can fit. The first step for us was to take care of most of the ghost gear that was created by the storm in LFA 25.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

How about the timing of that, though? We have spring seasons coming up, and there's not much ability to do some of this work in the winter, whether it's the gear or the wharves. The spring season starts at various places, obviously. The one most affected, LFA 25, starts in May or June.

Can you comment about the time? What happens if none of that is in place by then?

[Martin Mallet]

I'll leave it to Luc answer that, because he's getting the brunt of the calls right now, actually.

[Luc LeBlanc]

I think that's a very good question, Mr. Perkins. Time is of the essence, because the spring season, as you mentioned, is coming, but the real particular problem is the availability of materials to build these traps. There are really serious backlogs, from what I'm hearing from fishermen. Folks are going to have to wait months to get traps that they already ordered last month, for example.

Time is indeed of the essence for sure.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

What happens if that's not ready?

[Luc LeBlanc]

No traps, no fishing—it's that simple.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Perkins. You're right on the mark.

We'll now go to Mr. Cormier for five minutes or less, please.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being with us.

Before anything else, I want to tell Mr. Perkins that I am proud of the investments we have made in the small craft harbours. If Mr. LeBlanc had not been Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard at the time, I think we would not have received that $400 million in additional investments for small craft harbours. We would probably also not have had the $400 million for the fisheries or a modernized Fisheries Act that protects owner-operators.

My region has received $75 million for wharves, but that is still not enough. The wharves in my region had been in disrepair for several years before I was elected and we are trying to rebuild them.

Mr. Mallet and Mr. LeBlanc, as you said, northern New Brunswick was a little less hard hit by the storm, but it still caused damage.

I noted in your presentation that you were talking about dragging. What makes me angry is that every year, the department's officials know very well what harbours in my region will need dragging for the opening of the fishery, but they wait until the last minute, when the fishery should be starting, to do it.

Have you observed that, and do you share those concerns with the department officials when you meet with them?

[Martin Mallet]

About a week after the storm this fall, we had a meeting with the regional director for the gulf about small craft harbours. We told him that our priority was to address our lack of dragging capacity. It is needed in emergencies, in addition to well before all our fisheries start, everywhere in the region.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

We actually have that dragging capacity, Mr. Mallet and Mr. Leblanc, but it seems that pointless bureaucracy is what is preventing us from going ahead with certain contractors when other contractors could do the work.

Do you observe this? Do you hear it from your fishers in the various small craft harbours?

[Martin Mallet]

It has been proposed to us, and it is an excellent suggestion, that multi-year contracts be signed for those contractors. Instead of renewing the contracts every year or going about it piecemeal, we could sign three-year or five-year contracts with contractors who know the list of harbours they are going to be handling.

In emergencies, they would be able to do the work without having to follow a long process that takes months when we need something done in a few hours or days.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

You said earlier that some wharves that were renovated in the last few years had stood up to the storms better. I can cite examples in my region, like in Caraquet or Val-Comeau or Anse-Bleue, where there was virtually no damage, but some dragging will probably be necessary.

If we had invested the money we had in certain wharves, without wanting to close certain others, the situation would be different. For example, the department may say there is a wharf 20 minutes from here and we are not going to invest in that one, and instead we are going to have the fishers move. As you know, a wharf in a small community like Pointe-Verte or Petit-Rocher is the economic engine of the region, even if there are only 15 fishers.

Do you think there should be new strategic planning done to determine how to invest the new money that is coming? Personally, I'm dreaming of a billion dollars for the small craft harbours. I hope we will get it. Do you think strategic planning is needed to solve the problem and make our wharves more resilient?

[Martin Mallet]

Yes. That was the second storm in three years. We absolutely have to review our strategy. In spite of the major investments made over the last few years, that is insufficient to deal with what is coming in the next decades. If there is a positive side to Fiona, it is that we have the proof that a properly renovated wharf can stand up.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Right.