Fisheries Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2022

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

It's a huge issue. It's going to take all the departments for sure. I hope we can put a plan in place to get some things moving more quickly so that we'll actually meet the targets and also, hopefully, even meet the targets sooner than 2030. I think our environment needs it.

I have some time and I have other questions I want to get to, but I really want to reiterate this, Ms. Gibbons. You were with me at the recent event in the Tsawout nation along with Minister Murray. I'm feeling very heavy-hearted being here today and hearing the same responses over and over about how there is no action being taken to get fish farms out of the water and to have a clear plan in place for communities, despite having heard from the majority of first nations very, very clearly over and over. For hours we sat there listening to first nation communities talking about the impacts of fish farms on their communities, on them, on the wild salmon, talking about salmon that are being caught and showing up on their shores through rivers and through the oceans, salmon that are glowing, covered in sores, full of sea lice as has never been seen before, and yet I'm hearing responses like “we will be minimizing the impacts and interactions between fish farms and wild salmon”.

Quite frankly, that's not good enough. That's what I'm hearing over and over and over again from community members, from first nations chiefs.

What action is going to be taken to ensure that we are reducing or eliminating the pollutants from these toxic fish farms and finally getting them out of the water with a plan in place for communities?

[Annette Gibbons]

I will refer back to the minister's remarks about having a plan that she will be discussing in the spring.

As we undertake big changes that have economic and social impacts for communities, we always try to consult. That is the stage of the process that we are in now, and once we complete that, the minister, as she's noted, will be bringing forward her plan.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

You have only about 17 seconds left, so you're not going to get much out of that.

We'll now go to Mr. Arnold for five minutes or less, please.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the department staff for being here today.

I want to start off with Mr. Henderson, please.

Earlier you appeared before the committee in a study that examined the Zim Kingston incident that left 105 cargo containers in B.C. waters. When you appeared, you stated that the Coast Guard, and I'll quote, “was well-positioned to respond quickly and effectively to this incident.”

However, further correspondence to the committee from the Coast Guard revealed that the initial drift model for lost containers came from the U.S. Coast Guard, which informed the Canadian Coast Guard's earlier response on the Zim Kingston.

Why did you not provide these facts when you provided testimony to the committee?

[Chris Henderson]

What I'd like to underscore is just how important it is that the Canadian Coast Guard, the United States Coast Guard and both governments work very, very closely together in planning for and implementing responses. In the heat of the crisis, what's important is that we get the information. It's less important where it comes from.

As far as what, sir, I might or might not have said to the committee before, I don't recall what I said, so I can't address why I might not have said that particular thing, but I certainly would not have knowingly withheld information that I was asked about.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

I'm also concerned that despite the one-and-a-half billion dollars invested in the oceans protection plan, Canada's Coast Guard was unable to respond to the Zim Kingston incident to prevent the cargo containers filled with plastics and other materials from ending up in B.C. waters.

In our study of that container spill, the committee was told that these plastics and polystyrene foam are “much more insidious and have much more long-term impact than even oil”. British Columbians are very concerned about this.

To the deputy minister, the minister talks about fighting plastics pollution in the ocean protection plan, so what is being done to recover the 105 containers of plastics and polystyrene foam decomposing in B.C. waters?

[Annette Gibbons]

I'm afraid, Mr. Chair, that I'm not in a position to answer that specific question. I'm not sure if Chris can add something.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Okay, thank you. We'll ask for that answer in writing if it can be provided.

[Chris Henderson]

I am able to provide some of the information, if you'd like.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Okay.

[Chris Henderson]

There is a number that is well advertised on the coast of Vancouver Island for people to call when they see debris. We have close connections with the first nations up and down the coast. We go and investigate. It is the responsibility of the shipping company, and that's within the polluter pay principle within Canada. That's the regime that we use, so it is the responsibility of the shipping company itself to take action, and we have been quite consistent with holding to that.

Then they are going up and doing those studies to see—

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I have limited time, so if you can provide any further detail in writing, we would appreciate it.

[Chris Henderson]

Sure.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

This question is for the deputy minister.

Earlier today, the minister stated that as of today, there's equal distribution of federal funding to fight aquatic invasive species. I welcome this announcement, but, as always, the devil is in the details.

Can you elaborate on how the equal distribution of AIS funds will be achieved? If you're not able to do that in a short answer today, please provide it in writing.

[Annette Gibbons]

The short answer is that we take the budget that we have and we allocate it evenly across our regions. That's what we do.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

That has not been the case in the past. Why has the government waited until now to establish this fairness?

[Annette Gibbons]

I'll ask Alex Dostal to answer that.

[Alexandra Dostal, Assistant Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the question from the member.

The numbers we mentioned and how they are equal across all DFO regions has been the case since the funding for the national core program for aquatic invasive species was put in place in 2017. At that time, there was $15.5 million allocated over five years, with $4 million ongoing. That was equally allocated across all of our DFO administrative regions.

I should also add, since your previous question to the minister was also related to British Columbia, that we also work closely with provincial counterparts, for example, on matters related to aquatic invasive species. What you'll see is funding we've used from some of our other programming, like our B.C. salmon restoration and innovation initiative. There's been funding from that program, for example, to fight European green crab, in collaboration with partners.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you for that, but why is it not—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Arnold. Your time has gone over.

We'll now go to Mr. Hanley for five minutes or less, please.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

Thank you to all of the officials for attending today. It's always great to hear directly from you.

There will be a committee study in the near future that is going to be devoted to the critical state of Yukon salmon. This is one of the lenses I'm going to be using for my questions.

Going back to the PSSI, I see a supplementary $1.9 million set aside for it. I'm keen to hear more details, if they're available, for the rationale for that money and where it's going to be allocated.

At the same time, maybe to revisit the PSSI and its applicability to the Yukon, can you review how the spending from the PSSI will be allocated or has been allocated to Yukon salmon projects?

Ms. Gibbons, you're free to triage the answer. Thanks.

[Annette Gibbons]

Thank you.

It's a bit deeper than I've had the opportunity to go in my month on the job so far, so I'll ask Rebecca Reid if she can provide a bit more detail.

[Rebecca Reid, Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Thank you.

We have met with the Yukon first nations and the Yukon government to talk about shared priorities and where we can work together through the Pacific salmon strategy initiative. We are looking at specific opportunities to work with them to lever that funding for activities up in that area.

We can provide you with additional details on that as they're available.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you. I would certainly appreciate any written details and information as they come.

I'm also interested in the overall allocation and how that's figured out with Yukon versus B.C. Is it proportionate to the population? Are there regional considerations?

Could you explain that a bit?

[Rebecca Reid]

In the Pacific salmon strategy initiative, there are four pillars that are divided into different categories of activities, such as conservation and enhancement and those types of things. We look at priority projects.

For the specifics between B.C. and Yukon, there's no formal breakdown in between. It would be project-specific. I'd say, of course, that we're further advanced on the B.C. side, but we are working with Yukon to identify priorities for them as well.