Evidence of meeting #39 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was business.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

John Guarino  President, Coca-Cola Refreshments Canada
James Haga  Director of Advocacy, Engineers Without Borders Canada

4:10 p.m.

President, Coca-Cola Refreshments Canada

John Guarino

Thank you for the question.

First of all, given that much of our business is in the developing markets, we feel that the role of women in our business has not been represented properly. Many people think of us as a heavy business—lifting, bottling, cases—but the truth is that we have such a diverse business and we require so many different things that we weren't always able, particularly in booming economies, to get all the resources we needed.

We felt that the economic impact of women's entrepreneurship was not being recognized, so that's why we instituted this program, 5 BY 20. This is a global program. We go country by country and have objectives for each country. It's a separate department reporting into the senior leadership of the company in Atlanta, where we monitor these.

And it's everything.... It's micro-distribution, which would be a small village where we would appoint somebody who is responsible for delivering Coke and our products to the stores there. We would deliver to them and then they would distribute around to that community, store by store and restaurant by restaurant. We've set targets on that. We would want women to own that business, for example. Then they go out and hire the salespeople and the delivery people who can handle the product and do the deliveries every day.

It has been extremely successful. Needless to say, women have been wonderful managers of this business—across Africa. We know that in many places in Africa in developing markets sometimes maybe they don't get a fair shot at economic empowerment, at owning a business, or at running a business, and they're pretty darn good at it. Also, it is linked not just directly to our business, but to looking at our suppliers as well, and to saying that when we go out and work with advertising agencies and suppliers—whether of raw materials for the production plant or just office supply—we have targets of how many women entrepreneurs we're going to be working with.

That's how we plan on getting to five million women by 2020. It's a lofty goal. We feel we're on track. As you said, we're a business. It's a win-win as far as we're concerned. We're getting the benefit of having all of these economically empowered women supporting our business globally.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON

I've been in Ghana, Nigeria, Togo, Benin, Burkina Faso, Ethiopia, and several other African countries, and I've managed to get Coke in every one of those countries, so you're obviously being successful.

I guess my question is, are you beginning to see the effects of these women managing their own businesses? Are you beginning to see the effects on their own families and how that is working out in their communities?

4:10 p.m.

President, Coca-Cola Refreshments Canada

John Guarino

Yes. I mean, I couldn't point to scientific data, but we know they're becoming a pillar. Their husbands will still most likely have a job and be gone during the day, but running their own business allows them to be flexible in terms of what they're doing, both in terms of generating income and in terms of raising a family at the same time. Undoubtedly it provides for a more stable household, one that is more economically empowered, is making a little more money, and is able to invest back in the community, so it becomes a bit of a virtuous circle.

So I wouldn't have specific facts to say that these women lead to this, but there's no doubt that it's making stronger and healthier economic and family communities where we're doing this, particularly in Africa.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON

How do you go about finding these women? Do you advertise in some mechanism, or do you have a contact in the village you're looking to work in? How broad a distribution area would they have? What is their potential? I guess that's what it comes down to. But how do you go about finding these people to employ?

4:10 p.m.

President, Coca-Cola Refreshments Canada

John Guarino

We will advertise for them locally, and that can be very different things in different countries, but we are a very local business. As you said, you can find us pretty much everywhere, so we know what's going on in the areas. We will actively search out. We will say that this is what we're looking for and these are the requirements of what we're looking for.

In terms of what is expected, we don't have big long contracts, but we say here are the ten things that need to be done if you want to run this business. There's a certain amount of investment. We help arrange financing so that they can have start-up funds to do this. We would evaluate them against this performance, but essentially it's about going in, town by town, to find them.

The areas that these micro-distributors serve are quite limited. They might be just within a mile, because much of the time all of the product would be delivered by handcart, or by bicycles or something else, as opposed to.... It's not that big trucks are going in and delivering this product. That's why we're able to get so many. We give them a defined geographic area to service and we protect that area for them.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON

On a different topic, when you're doing your water assessments in a country such as Ghana, which has the Volta River running through it, an enormous river—that river is huge—or in South Sudan, where I was in January and where they have the Blue Nile, which of course is the beginning of the Nile River and is again a huge river, are you doing water assessments in those countries to see how the work you're doing in other places might be offset? Are you working in South Sudan? You talked about Ghana, but those are two countries that have huge water resources.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

That's all the time you've got.

I'll let you answer the question, Mr. Guarino.

4:15 p.m.

President, Coca-Cola Refreshments Canada

John Guarino

We are starting business in South Sudan, which is a challenging market. At every facility we have to do a water assessment in terms of the sourcing and look at how we are servicing the water, what our usage rate would be there, and we also look at how we can. We've done them in China, we've done them most recently with the Danube in central Europe in terms of protecting the rivers as a source to ensure that if we're taking from a municipal source.... We all have a stake in making sure that the water source is secure and safe. We work closely with business as well as non-profits. It's a very important part of what we do.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you, Mr. Guarino.

We're going to move back to this side of the table. Mr. Eyking, you have seven minutes.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

Thank you, Chair.

I thank the guests for coming today.

I'm going to ask the Coca-Cola questions first, if you guys want to hit the road.

I did a lot of work in Central America in the most remote regions, and I was always surprised to see Coca-Cola there. It could be debatable if it's the best drink in the world, but you're there, and many times you encourage electricity to come to these little outlets. I think that's good.

I know your company sells a lot of healthy juices, and I don't see them much in these remote areas. It's just a comment more than anything, but I think it would be really beneficial, because a lot of these places have poor nutrition and it would go a long way if that could be encouraged.

The other thing I notice with your company in these regions is that you have excellent distribution and storage systems. They are very efficient. I'm wondering if Coca-Cola could help more on distribution to fill some of the needs in these areas. I think your trucks are going that way, and I'm not talking about big bulky items like large food items but everything from vitamins to needles and even to condoms and things that some of these areas could really benefit from. The distribution from Europe or North America to get certain items to these areas is crucial. I know it would change your system a bit, but have you ever contemplated doing that, or did you ever do that in certain circumstances, for instance if there's a catastrophe in an area?

4:15 p.m.

President, Coca-Cola Refreshments Canada

John Guarino

Yes. I can say first that we are expanding our juice portfolio and getting broader distribution. Refrigeration is part of having shelf-stable products, and the fortified beverage we've rolled out this year allows us to do that without refrigeration.

Specifically, yes. We've talked about it in distributing vaccines in Tanzania. We have distributed condoms before. So in the normal sense of business we will work with local communities because we can have a far greater reach.

We have opened warehouses at times for people to store things they can then supply locally.

So I wouldn't say that it was a formal one, that every truck is going to give 10% of its space, but we have done it and we always look at it. We always give our trucks 100% to disaster relief. We provide bottled water, and the trucks are used to distribute essentials during disasters. Whether it's earthquakes, the tsunami in Japan, the first thing we do is get out clean water and give our trucks to the communities to allow them to distribute what's needed.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

When you have your bottling facilities—and there's probably one in each major area—the water you use is of course filtered and cleaned. Do you ever share that water that has to go to your system?

4:15 p.m.

President, Coca-Cola Refreshments Canada

John Guarino

We take all the water from municipal or we have our own wells. We take it through processing, but it's done literally at the filling process. So the only way to get it distributed is through the bottle. But we have given money to local communities where there's a source well they could put a pipe to and take what they need where we know there's no issue with the amount of water. But at this point we don't open up our water for use in the local communities. If they didn't have it then we wouldn't have it either.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

Thank you very much. I'd like to ask you more questions, but I only get one round of seven minutes and I want to make sure that Engineers Without Borders gets a question.

Thank you for coming, James. I've spoken to your group many times. I'm not knocking other NGOs, but your NGO really does yeoman work, because you are getting into these areas with bridges, infrastructure, buildings, dams, and those are the key starting points, whether you are rebuilding an area because of a catastrophe or starting a region. So I commend the work that Engineers Without Borders does.

We've heard that CIDA has cut your funding. Do you have any numbers to show how it has been cut in the last six years?

4:20 p.m.

Director of Advocacy, Engineers Without Borders Canada

James Haga

The question being cuts to aid across the board, or to our—

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

To Engineers Without Borders and the projects you do.

4:20 p.m.

Director of Advocacy, Engineers Without Borders Canada

James Haga

In fact it hasn't been an issue for Engineers Without Borders.

With the greatest respect to the Government of Canada and to CIDA in particular, our interest is in fact to decrease the amount of reliance we have on government aid. From all the trends we've seen globally, it seems as though public moneys are less available for this type of work. If we can be creative in finding partnership opportunities and other fundraising opportunities, that's in our interest to do, to have the independence to operate as we see fit.

Our organization hasn't suffered from cuts.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

You've gone another route to find funding. That's noble, and I think it's the right thing to do. I think that at the end of the day, not just for Canada but for any country, one of the best ways to spend money is to fund Engineers Without Borders. It sets the template for other NGOs coming in.

Do you have any models or recommendations that CIDA should be putting out there dealing with public-private partnerships?

4:20 p.m.

Director of Advocacy, Engineers Without Borders Canada

James Haga

First, I apologize, as I don't believe any of you have notes in front of you from me. That's my error in not having prepared them early enough in advance.

Yes, a great part of what I was speaking to, Mr. Eyking, was a proposal for an aid financing mechanism that would allow, first and foremost, a pay-for-performance relationship between our government and another partner government that puts the emphasis on results being achieved rather than paying for inputs into the concept.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

Could you give me an example?

4:20 p.m.

Director of Advocacy, Engineers Without Borders Canada

James Haga

For example, right now the Department for International Development in the United Kingdom is engaging with the Ethiopian government. Essentially, Ethiopia has agreed to graduate x number of girls and boys from secondary school, and they need to pass a standardized test in order to have that graduation. Once they achieve their baseline numbers over a course of five years, the donor, the British government in this case, would provide payment.

The interesting innovation in how this is being done is it puts a great emphasis on the local government, in this case Ethiopia, to manage as it sees fit to achieve that goal, quite frankly without a lot of meddling and bureaucratic involvement from the U.K. government. It empowers and puts the responsibility on the Ethiopian government to achieve that goal. If they achieve it, the British government will provide transfer payments. If they don't, the British government won't.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Eyking.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

Mr. Chair, if I may, I know Mr. Haga didn't have the documentation, but I would really appreciate some of those examples he gave, and if his brief could come to us, would that be all right?

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Sure, that would be great.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

Thank you, Chair.