Evidence of meeting #111 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was infrastructure.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Chair  Mr. Michael Levitt (York Centre, Lib.)
Jessica M. Shadian  Chief Executive Officer and Founder, Arctic 360, and Distinguished Senior Fellow, Bill Graham Centre for Contemporary International History, As an Individual
Whitney Lackenbauer  Canada Research Chair in the Study of the Canadian North and Professor, School for the Study of Canada, Trent University, As an Individual
Leona Alleslev  Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, CPC
Andrea Charron  Director and Associate Professor, Centre for Defence and Security Studies, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
David Perry  Vice-president, Senior Analyst and Fellow, Canadian Global Affairs Institute, As an Individual
Frank Baylis  Pierrefonds—Dollard, Lib.

4:25 p.m.

Leona Alleslev Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, CPC

Thank you very much.

I think this is a critically important conversation. I thank you for exploring it so thoroughly.

You outlined that there is essentially a military, civil and economic imperative for us to focus on our north. I like your analogy of it being an emerging market, and that we are not looking at policy but rather need to look at a pragmatic, practical, executable strategy.

Toward that end, can you tell me if we have a clear, concise definition and scope of the economic opportunity in the Arctic?

4:25 p.m.

Prof. Whitney Lackenbauer

If I could jump at that one first, I would say no.

What I've been struggling about in the last 20 years that I've been looking at this issue in earnest is a lack of clarity. We have a lot of generalities about the need to have a combined economy that will mix both traditional harvesting activities and, at the same time, be prepared for market-driven, capitalist development. I see lots of—

4:25 p.m.

Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, CPC

Leona Alleslev

When we look at emerging markets, of course, we have a compelling economic focus of what the size and scope of that market is. Obviously, it's hard to make a similar argument if, in fact, we don't have the clear, concise and compelling economic scope of the conversation.

4:25 p.m.

Prof. Whitney Lackenbauer

I would love to see that narrative be developed. I think that takes a feat of imagination.

Going back to MP Saini's comment as well, if we're going to have an Arctic saga, if we're going to see scenarios, they may include very careful, deliberate considerations of potential investors, like the Chinese, in ways that are not threatening to our interests.

However, it needs to be fully developed.

4:25 p.m.

Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, CPC

Leona Alleslev

If I might, because I only have three minutes, the next piece is that it can't just be the scope of the opportunity. It has to be the gaps, then, in terms of manpower, infrastructure, whatever other elements we need—situational awareness, technology, equipment—and then what the priorities should be to arrive at that.

4:25 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer and Founder, Arctic 360, and Distinguished Senior Fellow, Bill Graham Centre for Contemporary International History, As an Individual

Dr. Jessica M. Shadian

This is exactly what I'm talking about. We need to do this.

4:25 p.m.

Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, CPC

Leona Alleslev

Does it exist?

4:25 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer and Founder, Arctic 360, and Distinguished Senior Fellow, Bill Graham Centre for Contemporary International History, As an Individual

Dr. Jessica M. Shadian

No. That's what I'm saying. We need to put this all together.

I would have to go and ask.... I know the people to ask. There are numbers.

There is Tom Hoefer. There are people who do mining and the mining association. I'm sure he has a number of what he thinks the mining potential is in the Canadian north.

4:25 p.m.

Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, CPC

Leona Alleslev

We have the pieces of the puzzle.

4:25 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer and Founder, Arctic 360, and Distinguished Senior Fellow, Bill Graham Centre for Contemporary International History, As an Individual

Dr. Jessica M. Shadian

We have pieces that are not put together.

4:25 p.m.

Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, CPC

Leona Alleslev

We don't have one compelling puzzle that defines the scope, the gaps in achieving that scope, and makes some recommendations around what the priorities are to—

4:25 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer and Founder, Arctic 360, and Distinguished Senior Fellow, Bill Graham Centre for Contemporary International History, As an Individual

Dr. Jessica M. Shadian

No, and this is what I have been trying to do and look forward to doing.

4:25 p.m.

Prof. Whitney Lackenbauer

Ms. Alleslev, I think one of the challenges, though, that will come up, and it certainly came up during the Harper era, is some of the critiques of the northern strategy unveiled in 2009 were that it was a top-down sort of approach.

Private sector investments will eventually bring prosperity through trickle-down approaches—not Prime Minister Harper's words, but my simplistic way of looking at it—and allow for vibrant, thriving, healthy northern communities.

4:25 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer and Founder, Arctic 360, and Distinguished Senior Fellow, Bill Graham Centre for Contemporary International History, As an Individual

Dr. Jessica M. Shadian

No, but this is where—

4:25 p.m.

Prof. Whitney Lackenbauer

In essence, the other model would be to invest in people, invest in the skills and the training and the development, and eventually they will then be able to create and forge and imagine their own destiny.

I think the challenge is—

October 24th, 2018 / 4:25 p.m.

Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, CPC

Leona Alleslev

Just let her jump in, if you would.

4:25 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer and Founder, Arctic 360, and Distinguished Senior Fellow, Bill Graham Centre for Contemporary International History, As an Individual

Dr. Jessica M. Shadian

Yes, because I am. I'm working with the territorial government. I'm working with a lot of the indigenous development corporations, and a lot of them have equity. They want to figure out how to bring their equity into these projects and have equity shares. They want to own this infrastructure at the end of the day. This is not something I'm talking about sitting up on some pillar. This is something of which I only know what I know because I've learned through the people I've worked with.

4:30 p.m.

Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, CPC

Leona Alleslev

It will take everybody, and each—

4:30 p.m.

Prof. Whitney Lackenbauer

Yes, the challenge is needing to have a phased plan that's not everybody saying that they want everything, which is what I hear, this cacophony of voices of late where everybody's identifying that there's a need and there's a desire to do something, yet there is no clear plan that's phased in that's actually articulating where relative emphasis should be placed. If the efforts of this committee and other Government of Canada thinkers begin to articulate a feasible, pragmatic plan that can then be discussed, and challenged, and pursued, that would be of great benefit going forward.

4:30 p.m.

Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, CPC

Leona Alleslev

It's too big to tackle otherwise; is that fair?

4:30 p.m.

Prof. Whitney Lackenbauer

Absolutely.

4:30 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer and Founder, Arctic 360, and Distinguished Senior Fellow, Bill Graham Centre for Contemporary International History, As an Individual

Dr. Jessica M. Shadian

We're just going to be doing one project at a time, and one thing, otherwise, it's never going to get done.

4:30 p.m.

Mr. Michael Levitt (York Centre, Lib.)

The Chair

With that, I am going to thank both of you for a lively and engaging discussion, and for getting us warmed up today. Thank you very much. We're going to suspend for a minute and a half because we've run a little over, and then we'll begin again.

4:35 p.m.

Mr. Michael Levitt (York Centre, Lib.)

The Chair

We're resuming.

We're now ready for our second set of guests this afternoon. I want to welcome David Perry, vice-president, senior analyst and fellow at the Canadian Global Affairs Institute, and adjunct assistant professor at the Centre for Military and Strategic Studies at the University of Calgary.

Also, by video, we have Andrea Charron, who, it appears, is at the University of Manitoba, because that's what it says on the screen. She is an assistant professor and director of the Centre for Defence and Security Studies at the University of Manitoba. She's with us from Winnipeg.

Thank you to you both.

Since we have you by video, Professor Charron, we can maybe have you go first. Sometimes these video links can be a little bit iffy. While we have you and you're clear as a bell....

You can each take about eight minutes and then we'll open it up to the floor for questions.

4:35 p.m.

Dr. Andrea Charron Director and Associate Professor, Centre for Defence and Security Studies, University of Manitoba, As an Individual

Thank you very much for the invitation.

I thought it might be helpful to pull together the testimonies heard to date. The conclusion I have reached is that there are two seemingly contradictory schools of thought on Arctic sovereignty, yet they are arguing for the same ends. For decades we have heard many arguments that Canada's Arctic sovereignty is in peril—or that it is not. What is fascinating, however, is that both schools are urging action to the same common ends.

The common theme is as follows. Successive governments fail to provide enough resources and/or policy guidance to either re-establish presumably lost Arctic sovereignty or maintain the status quo of just enough sovereignty. Both camps have raised valid concerns, but the solutions are lost because of the opaqueness, misunderstanding and misuse of the term “sovereignty”.

Southern Canadians use sovereignty as a shorthand replacement to suggest they have a general fear or concern about something but can't always articulate exactly what, or how to ameliorate the situation. What is more, successive Canadian governments have used sovereignty as a catch-all response to demonstrate concern about Canadian interests without needing to be very specific about what is being done or addressed. The term “exercising” sovereignty suggests all-or-nothing solutions, when what's been recommended are resources and nuanced responses that are not in the abstract or in theory. Furthermore, the term confuses and confounds allies and Arctic states, as Canada is the outlier in referencing sovereignty threats rather than threats to the homeland or capability gaps or surveillance challenges.

Here are four issues that both schools agree need to have continued support, now and in the future.

The first is all-domain awareness in the air, sea, land, space and cyber domains. Operation Limpid is part of that puzzle, as is the common maritime operating picture provided by the MSOCs. We have NORAD's two warning missions and the information provided by government departments and allies, yet a vital source of domain awareness, the north warning system, is coming to the end of its serviceable life. Resources are not earmarked for its replacement or reimagining. At the same time, we've heard that the RADARSAT constellations launch is now delayed.

Of course, all of these missions are under enormous resource and personnel pressures. What keeps me up at night is that I am not sure, for example, we'll be able to attract, train and retain personnel in all of Canada's safety, security and defence-related fields. This is not specific to the Arctic. Even the very successful ranger program and now the new Coast Guard Auxiliary program are in competition to attract the same individuals.

The second issue is the continuous governance challenges in the Arctic, such as the lack of services for the peoples of the Arctic—and for remote communities in Canada in general, for that matter. Housing prices are still too high, and the supply is too low. Nutrition North is not achieving the ends it seeks, which is to ensure that affordable, nutritious food is available. Businesses operate, but note that the growing bureaucratic red tape is making it difficult. Canada will not be able to attract or retain entrepreneurs if we can't guarantee the basic services. If projects like the retrofitting of an existing deepwater port take over a decade to materialize, this sends the wrong message.

It is perhaps not surprising, then, that Canada's Arctic is the only one of the eight Arctic states that has a stagnant Arctic GDP, as reported in the last “Arctic Human Development Report”. At the same time, we do know of some successes—for example, the new Arctic region announced today by the ITK, Fisheries and Oceans, and the Canadian Coast Guard. These are all steps in the right direction.

Third, every witness has been asked about Russia and China. These are questions that should be posed not only in the context of Canada's Arctic but in general. These potential near-peer competitors, coupled with the U.S., which seems determined to break or ignore international norms, rules and organizations that have allowed it and Canada to thrive to date, are not helped by discussions about sovereignty. Rather, we need analysis regarding intentions and capabilities.

NORAD and the Canadian Armed Forces have articulated their concerns about the capabilities that Russia possesses. They can reach Canada and the U.S. from Russian territory. China too has been investing in weapons that could threaten Canada, not the Arctic specifically.

Where discussions become very muddy is with respect to intentions because of the sovereignty debate. It is clear that the Arctic has proven to be a zone of co-operation, and it is thanks to the Arctic Council, numerous international laws and rules, not to mention Canadian laws, such as the Arctic Waters Pollution Prevention Act, or tools such as NORDREG, and of course Russia's and China's adherence to those rules to date.

Canada's attention needs to be on encouraging and fostering this co-operation and these accomplishments, like the High Arctic commercial fishing moratorium, which was just signed.

Finally, with respect to the Northwest Passage, it seems to me that all of the witnesses, and even the world, agree that it is Canadian. The arguments are about the rules that Canada can or should adopt to facilitate responsible shipping, protect wildlife and promote Canada's economy, regardless of its status.

Both sovereignty schools have argued for similar solutions and these ends. Canada needs to operationalize the Arctic maritime corridors initiative, which then prioritizes the location for navigational aids, future mapping efforts and sets the path for bathymetric surveys.

By continuing to fixate on sovereignty with references to the Arctic, there are some very serious problems that are obfuscated, and discussions we are not having with regard to Canada's national interests that transcend the Arctic, i.e., Canada's economic future, its defence and the future of a rapidly deteriorating liberal world order.

Thank you.