Foreign Affairs Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2018

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I have the same question.

[The Chair]

Then take your time. Please go ahead.

[Luis Leonardo Almagro Lemes]

There have also been initiatives that tried to involve China and Russia in a solution for Venezuela. We regret that those initiatives didn't work in the end. We can study the reasons for a long time, but our main concern about what you're asking is that these attempts in the past were made when the situation was better in Venezuela, two years ago, or really one year ago.

We have not had, and I think the Chinese were not able to achieve from the Venezuelan government, a positive answer to that. Denial is the trademark of the Venezuelan regime. At any level, it's very difficult to influence them in a positive way, even by the Chinese.

Everything that has been tried so far has not worked. We all know the permanent denial of the humanitarian crisis, the permanent denial of the political situation, the permanent denial of human rights violations, the permanent denial of the situation of the economy that the regime in Venezuela has repeated time after time. So far, I don't see this Chinese influence working on them in a positive way.

The situation in the country is even worse than what has been described here, because the lack of institutionality makes it practically impossible to fix any of the issues you've mentioned. It will be impossible to fix the financial problems of the country, the economic problems of the country, the problems with the collapse of the oil production system. It will be very difficult to resolve even the territorial control of the country. We have a strong presence of the ELN and FARC in at least two-thirds of the territory. We see what happens when Venezuela's national guard wants to intervene in those areas: They are just killed by the ELN. They have absolute impunity about that. They have absolute impunity on illegal mining and exploitation and organized crime activity, the drug trafficking they have implemented. We have a rogue state that is paralyzed in everything except illegal activities.

Those illegal activities make things very difficult to resolve. I tried to explain it here. A political solution, a political dialogue, a political negotiation is very difficult to implement with a criminal state. It is very difficult to implement negotiations with drug traffickers, which is what we have now in Venezuela. We have the family of the president in jail in New York because of drug trafficking. We have hundreds of millions of the vice-president's dollars frozen in the United States because of drug trafficking. We have the minister of the interior sanctioned because of drug trafficking. We have the whole repressive apparatus sanctioned because of drug trafficking.

I don't think even the Chinese can conduct a negotiation with drug traffickers. There are no open negotiations with drug traffickers that we know of. That is the logic that the regime has. That is the door that is closed for them. That makes it impossible for them to go and negotiate with drug traffickers.

[The Chair]

Madame Laverdière, you have a follow-up question.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Secretary General, I am pleased to see you again before this committee.

I would like to follow on from my colleague's question. If I understand correctly, there is no diplomatic initiative or discussion under way.

[Luis Leonardo Almagro Lemes]

There is no diplomatic initiative these days. After the failures of the Vatican in November 2016 and the failure of the negotiations in Santo Domingo in 2017, I think practically everybody in the international community knows that any dialogue process will have one outcome: Maduro will remain in power. That is their only objective. For any dialogue or any negotiation process, the only acceptable solution for them is to remain in power. That makes it very difficult for anybody to volunteer in a new dialogue or in a new negotiation.

[The Chair]

Thank you very much.

The last question is from MP Vandenbeld, please.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you.

I want to thank both of you for your incredibly compelling testimony today.

I was wondering if you could elaborate on the particulars of the humanitarian crisis, and particularly the role of the state. I noticed, Professor Cotler, that you used language that suggests it was orchestrated by the state, that it's a deliberate, weaponized form of crimes against humanity. This suggests that the humanitarian crisis is not just a consequence of the human rights and political abuses but is actually a method of the human rights abuses. Could you perhaps elaborate on that?

[Irwin Cotler]

The humanitarian crisis in Venezuela, which I sought to share, and so did the Secretary General, is a state-orchestrated, state-sanctioned humanitarian crisis brought about by the weaponization of both food and medicine, targeting in particular those who they believe are opposed to the regime and the like. That has resulted in incredible human suffering, death, and devastation.

If I look at the situation in terms of what has been happening in Venezuela, I see some statistics here that are astonishing. Very quickly, malaria has been rising at the fastest rate in the world. In 2017, there were more than 406,000 cases of malaria, a 69% increase from the year before; and in 2018, the same thing is developing. The reported cases of tuberculosis increased from 6,000 in 2014 to more than 10,000 cases in 2017, the largest incidence and rise in 40 years. There were more than 7,300 suspected cases of measles in the mid-2000s, where there hadn't been any before; and more than 2,000 cases of diphtheria in the past two years, where there had been, in the nine years previously, not one case.

I can go on. I'm saying that this is a dramatically increasing, escalating humanitarian crisis that is targeting in particular the vulnerable and politically motivated victims of the regime.

I want to go back to one thing that the Secretary General said, because I think this is a crucial point. It is that now that there has been a state referral of crimes against humanity to the ICC, the special prosecutor does not have to await a panel in order to open an investigation. With a state referral, she can open an investigation immediately. The fact that she has not opened an investigation, regrettably, tends to indulge in or acquiesce in the impunity of the Maduro regime.

I think the Secretary General is right: Every day that goes by when an investigation is not open allows Maduro and the regime to believe they can continue to act with impunity. I think we have to emphasize the urgency of an ICC investigation and prosecution.

The second thing is the responsibility to protect. Canada was one of the architects of this principle, but I think it tends to be addressed more in its indifference than in its invocation. We need at this point to mandate, under R2P, immediate and urgent international assistance. That's number one.

Number two, any veneer of respectability of the Maduro regime comes to an end in January. Afterwards, this is an illegal dictatorial regime that's in power.

Number three, we should seek to have the restoration of the democratically elected legislative assembly and the Supreme Court, which is in exile.

Number four, we should ask for UN special procedure mechanisms to be allowed to visit Venezuela and do the fact-finding that is necessary.

The Lima Group is supposed to meet very shortly. They have to craft, together with the European Parliament—which, as I said, is ready for that purpose—a strategic, humanitarian, diplomatic and comprehensive initiative that will address this humanitarian crisis and this political dictatorial regime.

These are some things that I think we need to do as quickly as possible.

[The Chair]

Thank you very much.

That brings this panel to an end. I want to thank both of you.

We held this session today because we see this first-hand. Parliamentarians from all parties are concerned about the rapid deterioration, the ongoing human rights abuses, the humanitarian crisis and particularly the displacement of Venezuelans, which is turning into one of the most severe crises ever experienced in the Americas.

We really thank you for bringing us your experience on this file, Secretary General Almagro, and of course you, Professor Cotler. It's always good to see you back in these halls, Professor.

Thank you, gentlemen.

With that, we are adjourned.