Evidence of meeting #58 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was europe.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Stéphane Dion  Ambassador-Designate, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
John McCallum  Ambassador of Canada to the People's Republic of China, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

9:35 a.m.

Ambassador-Designate, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Stéphane Dion

It's much better like this now. It's an improvement which is the result of internal discussions as well as talks with our European colleagues. This went very well and I'm very pleased with the result. These responsibilities will allow me to explain very clearly in once sentence what Canada expects from its relationship with Europe.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

I'll switch to English now.

The EU never extended to you a diplomatic invitation to become an ambassador—agrément. Doesn't that undermine your credibility then? Do you believe it undermines your credibility with the European Union and with our European allies?

9:35 a.m.

Ambassador-Designate, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Stéphane Dion

No, and in which way would it? I don't understand the question.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

If they would not take you as an ambassador, then I don't really understand what this role of special envoy would be. I also don't understand the limits of this European mandate that you've been given. Does it include Russia? Does it include Turkey?

Members here have talked about human rights worldwide, and they've talked about relationships with America. I'm trying to understand the confines of this role that you have. If you put everything into it, then you have no role. If you put a very restricted mandate to it, and it's less than an ambassador, then it's something else.

I'm trying to understand. Did Canada hurt its credibility by trying to appoint two ambassadors in the beginning, instead of appointing a special envoy from the start, providing a very strict mandate, and explaining it to our European allies, coming up with stuff by ourselves and then telling our European allies how it's going to be?

9:35 a.m.

Ambassador-Designate, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

That's not it...? Please explain.

9:35 a.m.

Ambassador-Designate, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Stéphane Dion

I don't think so. You're entitled to have your own concerns, but I don't think they are shared at all by our European allies. On the contrary, as you will see in the letters that are tabled now for this committee, their reaction is very positive, and it reflects exactly what the Prime Minister had in mind at the outset.

When you have challenges like what is happening in Turkey or in Russia in its relationship with European neighbours, there is a European perspective on it that is in many ways shared by Canada, and it's difficult to address it only through a bilateral relationship with every country. You need to have a European perspective, and it will be my responsibility to develop that.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

What are the confines to your mandate? Does your Europe include Russia? Does it include Turkey?

9:35 a.m.

Ambassador-Designate, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Stéphane Dion

It does not include Russia, but it includes the Russian dimension of the European challenges.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

When you were shuffled out of cabinet, there were a lot of media reports that said you took weeks to decide whether to take on this role to become ambassador to Germany, to become ambassador to the European Union, I guess Europe as well. Is that correct? Did it take you weeks, and was part of it the trepidation of—you said—your workload? You obviously seem in good health so you can take this on, but what was it about the roles originally that made you take several weeks to decide whether to take this on?

9:35 a.m.

Ambassador-Designate, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Stéphane Dion

I don't know. If you went home and said to your wife, “Darling, we are going to Berlin”, what would be her reaction?

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

My wife would be very happy.

9:35 a.m.

Ambassador-Designate, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Stéphane Dion

Some discussions would be needed. It took some weeks. I also had an offer from the Université de Montréal, and the prospect of being home every evening for the first time in over 21 years was interesting. It was a very generous offer. I love being a teacher and I love being in the public service for Canadians, so I needed to make a choice, and it took some time.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

If I could just go back to the reporting relationship that you will have with the ambassador to the European Union, you said you're a special envoy for the Prime Minister. I'm trying to understand if you will be reporting to Ambassador Costello, or are you co-operating with him? Are you coordinating with him, or is there some type of reporting relationship to him? If not, is your reporting relationship solely to the Prime Minister?

9:35 a.m.

Ambassador-Designate, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Stéphane Dion

I will work very closely with Ambassador Costello. He is an easy person to work with. I'm sure we'll have a very collegial relationship that will be of benefit to Canadians.

I will have some responsibilities that are beyond those of an ambassador in a country or in an international organization like the European Union. To give an example, the Prime Minister asked me to have a yearly meeting of all heads of missions in Europe and afterwards to report to the cabinet. It's not something other ambassadors will have to do, but it shows that, indeed, the Prime Minister felt that something was lacking, a kind of European dimension of our efforts on the continent.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Okay. Is there a reason why the Minister of Foreign Affairs can't be doing that?

9:40 a.m.

Ambassador-Designate, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Stéphane Dion

The Minister of Foreign Affairs will be well involved in all of this. We'll work very closely with Minister Freeland, and I'm very pleased to do so. She's welcoming the ability to have a special envoy of the Prime Minister helping to pull together all of our efforts in Europe.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Okay.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bob Nault

Colleagues, we're going to wrap it up and take a five-minute suspension as we go to our next witness.

On behalf of the committee, Ambassador, I want to say thank you very much. We will take you up on your offer, and you can table that information for us. This has been very informative.

9:40 a.m.

Ambassador-Designate, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Stéphane Dion

I have copies for everyone.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bob Nault

Okay, very good. Thank you.

To both of you, thank you very much for participating, and good luck with your very important role in Europe, and Germany particularly.

Thank you, Ambassador.

Colleagues, we'll suspend for five minutes.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bob Nault

Colleagues, we'll bring this meeting back to order.

As is the process, pursuant to Standing Orders 110 and 111, we are here on the order in council appointment of the Honourable John McCallum to the position of Ambassador to China.

Welcome, Mr. McCallum.

With Mr. McCallum is David Hamilton, deputy director, greater China division.

Welcome, Mr. Hamilton.

As per usual, Ambassador, you'll get some time to make some opening comments, and then we'll go right into questions from our colleagues around the table. We're well warmed up now. We've had Mr. Dion here, so we're in the groove. We're looking forward to spending some time talking to you about your important role vis-à-vis China.

I'll turn it over to you, Ambassador, for your opening comments, and we'll go from there.

9:50 a.m.

John McCallum Ambassador of Canada to the People's Republic of China, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. It's a real pleasure for me to be back. I've been in China for five weeks. I think it's a great position, but this place gets in one's blood a bit, so I'm always pleased to return. I guess my theory is that part of my job is persuading China, but part of my job is persuading Canada. It's good to be in both places. I appreciate the opportunity to speak to all of you today.

To get to the core of things, it's a fantastic time for Canada to strengthen its ties with China. As I'll explain, we have much to gain through building stronger ties with China, and the Prime Minister, the cabinet, and stakeholders across the country are keen to do just that. It takes two to tango, and I have a strong sense that the Chinese are also keen to work with us. Since the stars will not always be aligned so positively, now is the time to seize the moment and be ambitious. Now is the time to act. That, with the support of the government, is exactly what I am planning to do.

Let me start at the beginning. Within 24 hours of arriving in China I was invited to present my credentials to President Xi Jinping. I conveyed to him a message from our Prime Minister that can be summarized in three words, “More, more, more”, or in Mandarin, “Gèng duo, gèng duo, gèng duo”. I'm having six hours a week of Mandarin lessons to improve my skills in that area. We want, in both directions, more trade, more investment, more tourists, more students, more co-operation in every conceivable area. The president seemed to like that sentiment.

I would point out to you that “More, more, more” also translates into more jobs for Canadians, because every time we have more tourists from China, more exports to China, more investment in Canada from China, that has a strong tendency to create jobs in Canada.

I also explained to the president, in my very poor Mandarin, something that some of you may have heard, that my affinity to China can be explained by three numbers: 100, 50, 40. My wife is 100% Chinese, my three boys are 50% Chinese, and the good people of Markham, who elected me for 16 years, are 40% Chinese. The president smiled and he said, “No need for translation”, I subsequently learned, so I like to think he understood what I said.

Look, China's a two-way street. Before elaborating on why I think there's so much to gain, I also want to comment on the fact that there are many issues on which Canada and China disagree. We disagree on the death penalty. We disagree on some aspects of the rule of law, and privately and publicly on how the Chinese government treats human rights advocates. We have a continuing keen interest in the integrity of Hong Kong's autonomous institutions under the “one country, two systems” formula. That's why the consular side of my job is critical, and also why, in my first six weeks on the job, I spent time meeting and supporting an LGBTQ group in Shanghai, female entrepreneurs in a group working to counter domestic violence in Beijing, and a woman called Ching Tien, whose organization, Educating Girls of Rural China, has done fantastic work in educating low-income girls over many years.

That side of the job is very important, but in particular I'd like to take this opportunity to address head-on an issue that has generated some controversy among Canadians, namely, Canada's decision to discuss extradition issues with China. While we are a long way from negotiating an extradition treaty with China, we've agreed to talk about the issues that need to be addressed for China or any other country to meet our high standards. This includes things like the death penalty and the importance of high standards of evidence in court proceedings. We lose nothing by explaining our system and talking about the values we hold dear.

Let me now come to the other side of the coin, the more positive side as to why China is important to Canada. China is the world's largest emitter of CO2, but it's also the world's biggest investor in renewable energy, investing $103 billion U.S. in 2015, which is more than two and a half times what the United States invested.

If Canada is serious about climate change, which we are, and if we're serious about selling our clean-tech innovations to the world, which we are, then we have no choice but to engage China. China also has 20% of the world's women and girls, and China is increasingly a key player in places like Africa, which face real challenges to women's health and education. If we want to improve the plight of women and girls around the world, then China is a key partner. The same can be said on working with China in the area of peacekeeping.

Also, if we want to engage positively on North Korea and other regional and security issues, we need to work with China.

Fentanyl is the cause of a major public health crisis in Canada with over 1,000 deaths. Many of those drugs come from China. If we want to address this crisis, we must work with China. I might say, the Chinese government has co-operated well in working with us on this crisis.

Last but not least, if we want jobs and prosperity for Canadians, then once again China is an essential partner.

Whether we're talking about climate change, the plight of women and girls, the Fentanyl issue, peace and security issues, or the prosperity of Canadians, in all of these cases China is a key partner.

Let me turn quickly, because I think I'm running out of time, to some of the key economic issues.

In my opinion, tourism may be the priority. It's a matter of numbers. I visited Guangzhou, it is one of China's second or third major cities. It has a population of 10 million people.

President Xi has said that over the next five years, there will be 700 million Chinese tourists. Consequently, the opportunities for Canada are enormous, and it is absolutely clear that an increase in the number of Chinese tourists will create a lot of jobs in Canada.

I mention briefly other economic sectors that are of great importance. Wood products, Minister Champagne had a very successful and well-timed visit to China last week, where we spoke to a number of government and private sector wood people and I think we made good progress in terms of increasing Canada's exports of forest products to China.

On agri-food, we are number five now in China. We could become number three, if we work hard. There's a huge demand for healthy, nutritious food, such as comes from Canada.

Clean-tech and environment is another major opportunity. China and Canada are both signatories to the Paris agreement. China has important environmental and energy-efficiency objectives, so there are good opportunities in that area.

Education has always been a pillar of our relationship, and that is scoped to blossom even further.

Ministers Joly, Qualtrough, Philpott, and Sajjan are working to enhance our ties in their own areas of culture, sports, health, and defence.

Finally, e-commerce is critical. We all know that small and medium-sized companies don't often export very much, even to the United States, let alone to China. China is a leader in e-commerce. The Prime Minister has spoken to Jack Ma, head of Alibaba. I have spoken to him. We are working together to get more Canadian small companies to get onto the Chinese e-commerce system, which will be a very important way to increase exports to China.

Mr. Chair, I will leave it at that.

Thank you. I look forward to your questions.

10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bob Nault

Thank you very much. As I understand it, we'll be able to complete our full time. I think the votes will take place around 11 o'clock, so we'll be fine.

We'll start right off with Mr. Kent, please.

10 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Kent Conservative Thornhill, ON

Thank you, Chair, and welcome, Ambassador.

Even as you begin your new assignment, China has appointed a new ambassador to Canada and Ambassador Lu Shaye is demanding that China be allowed to participate and invest in all sectors of the Canadian economy. He has said very bluntly on a number of occasions that security concerns about state-owned enterprises investing in Canadian companies and human rights concerns are not up for discussion.

Now, when you presented your diplomatic credentials directly to President Xi, and that's a very great honour, did you raise human rights concerns over the lack of due process? You mentioned this—the death penalty, extrajudicial abuse of anyone considered a pro-democracy challenge to the Chinese Communist government, the president's stated intention recently to outlaw foreign human rights activists and missionaries, and the Chinese hacking of a number of Canadian government departments. Were you able to raise any of those very legitimate tangible Canadian concerns with President Xi?