Foreign Affairs Committee on May 31st, 2018

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Apparently they were, and we weren't controlling them.

What can you tell me about what's going on with conflict minerals in the DRC?

[Nicolas Simard]

Various minerals are at the source of the ongoing conflicts in the east of the country. These include gold and the 3T minerals, tin, tungsten and tantalum. A huge amount of work is being done to make the minerals traceable.

Let me give you an example. Last week, I was in Toronto where I met with Canadian companies working to ensure that minerals are traceable. A lot of work is being done so that, from the extraction, meaning from the person working in the mine, until the sales, the transactions and the exports to Canada, traceability is ensured through the use of software.

A development program called Impact is letting us work in a number of African countries, including the DRC. Through that program, we make sure that mineral exports have an ethical dimension.

That said, there is definitely still a major conflict in the east of the country. MONUSCO is currently reporting around 100 armed groups. Within those armed groups, extraction activities certainly also fund conflict activities. We are very aware of it and we are working with the OECD and with international partners to make sure that conflict minerals can be better traced.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I'm very interested in all the aid that Canada is providing to Somalia. Correct me if I'm wrong. In 2016 it was $31 million, and then what I see in my materials is $18 million. I'm just wondering if there's a reason for the reduction, what the time period is over which that's being allotted, and what the impact the new feminist international assistance policy is having on changing the direction of assistance to Somalia.

[Marc-André Fredette]

For one thing, what we're referring to here is a combination of two different things in two different ways. First of all, we quoted fiscal year data, which referred to 2016-17 because those are the latest final confirmed numbers. That really addressed either the totality of our assistance or what we call our “development assistance” as distinct from humanitarian assistance.

Some of the more recent numbers I quoted for calendar 2018 are on humanitarian assistance, because those are much more recent and they are tracked immediately, whereas development assistance by its nature takes longer to track, because we're never sure on April 1 exactly how much we will have finished spending on the long-term development projects by March 31 of that fiscal year. That's basically the explanation.

If we take an average of all these things over the last five years, the pattern has been quite stable. It's mostly humanitarian assistance, responsive, of course, to things like climate shocks, which, as you know, are cyclical. We respond whenever there's a greater threat of famine, for instance.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Nault]

Thank you, Ms. Duncan.

We will go to Ms. Vandenbeld, please.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you.

To address the issue raised by Ms. Duncan, I think the Arms Trade Treaty is going to go a long way to prevent the diversion of weapons, particularly in areas like DRC.

My question goes to His Excellency Ambassador Simard and deals with the upcoming elections in the DRC.

I ran a program to promote dialogue between the political parties in the 2011 elections. We know that the elections were neither credible, nor transparent, nor fair. I was Country Director of the National Democratic Institute, the NDI. Now, I see exactly the same thing going on with the electoral records and the proposed voting machines, which contravene the law. How can we prevent the same problem from happening in this election?

I see that you have provided $10 million to increase voter participation. The last time, I proposed spending $100,000 to train observers for the political parties, but now, there are no observers.

After the election, the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) gave $3 million to conduct an audit, but it was not able to be done for lack of evidence. Could Canada use those funds to train observers for the political parties, networks of women and clerics? There are networks that can do that in each little village.

If we do not know what the results of the vote look like, it is very difficult to say afterwards whether it was fair or not. At the moment, I am afraid that Mr. Kabila will put obstacles in the way of the international observers. He does not want humanitarian aid, and I believe that the observers will be blocked.

Would it be possible to begin the process now by making use of those funds?

[Nicolas Simard]

Thank you very much for your question, Ms. Vandenbeld.

The election situation in the DRC is indeed extremely complicated. That is nothing new. We saw it in 2006 and 2011 and we are seeing it again now. The elections were supposed to be held in 2016, and they have been postponed twice.

The issue is not only whether they will take place, but, as you said, whether they will be credible, transparent and fair. Above all, whether the Congolese people will have enough trust in the results to allow peace in the country. If they do not have that trust, holding the elections serves no purpose because they will cause conflict thereafter.

As for the voting machines, which the Congolese call “the cheating machines”—which gives you a good idea of how the people view them—they were a choice the government made. Personally, as an observer, I do not feel that the voting machines will be up to the task, and neither do the other international diplomats in the country. There will be 100,000 polling stations. The DRC is a huge country the size of western Europe. The size of the country, and the number of polling stations, is really hard to imagine. To be able to hold the elections with voting machines, hundreds of millions of dollars would need to have been invested, and the government does not seem to have the money. Above all, the order for the machines needed to be in last February, and that was not done. So I am a little sceptical about how the commitment of the Congolese government will turn out in reality. I actually get the impression that the use of the voting machines will be mixed with traditional paper ballots.

In terms of observation, we have a very interesting $10-million project with the Conférence épiscopale nationale du Congo, the CENCO. The goal of this project is to help to train people for the elections, but also for observation. Ten thousand Congolese observers are being funded by the project and are in the process of being trained by the CENCO. A lot of women are part of the program as well. So I am very encouraged by that.

As regards the audit, as you know, the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie, or OIF, is in the process of conducting one, led by General Sangaré, who has a lot of experience in French-speaking Africa. A very positive aspect of the election audit is that the opposition parties, civil society and international organizations were able to participate directly. Voter registration was done incompletely and the fingerprints of eight million voters are not available, but the OIF is urging the government to rectify the situation before the elections.

There will also be a public audit of the voters’ list, which will allow citizens to see the list and try to correct the errors in it.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Is Canada sending experts under the umbrella of the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie?

[Nicolas Simard]

Canada is the OIF’s second largest funder. The contribution is a significant one. That said, mostly African experts, especially Congolese, are on the ground there.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Would it be possible to send Canadian experts?

[Nicolas Simard]

We could consider that with the department and see what can be done.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Nault]

We're going to Mr. Sidhu.

Please roll that into one of the other questions.

[Jati Sidhu, Liberal, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all three for appearing in front of the committee today.

Mr. Fredette, talking about Somalia, you mentioned that 50% of the population is still fighting hunger and that we are putting enough money into it: $31 million in 2016 and then lately another $18 million.

Are we just putting a fish out there? Is there any chance in any sector that we can help them to fish so that they will be self-sustainable some day? What is your comment on that?

[Marc-André Fredette]

First, I'd like to finish answering the earlier question, and I will weave it into this because one of the main things we can do in all three and in other similar countries, is to be very diligent in how we apply our feminist international assistance policy, but also our feminist foreign policy.

When you work in fragile, complex cases such as in these three countries, it's probably where it's most useful and most needed, because as I mentioned earlier, it's a combination in South Sudan, for instance, of making sure that women are engaged in the peace process. Likewise, in Somalia, when we work with civil society organizations or humanitarian assistance, we now have much more targeted operations that are aimed at women and girls who are inevitably the most vulnerable, the most victimized, in these sorts of situations.

It finishes answering your question, but it also addresses yours.

What more could we do in a place like Somalia in building development assistance to complement and eventually replace humanitarian assistance? It will require a number of things that are showing some promise, but it will take time. It will be a long, arduous path.

First, we need to have the rest of the job done in democratic institutions and political processes. What's happened in the last year is very encouraging and is the best we have seen in 30 years, but there is still another long part of the road. I quoted earlier that the last elections were not one person, one vote. That is on the agenda. It will make a difference in helping us have a fulsome government partner that has plans that are validated by a fulsome, democratic process, which is one of our requirements to do this kind of long-term development assistance with a partner.

Second, we need to finish constructing a modicum of stability. Much has been written in the past six months about al Shabaab being weakened, and by all evidence they have been weakened, but they still have great capacity for nuisance. Until some of that has been stabilized a lot of work is ongoing to reinforce and train and equip Somali police and military, etc., and not just by Canada. A lot of European countries are involved, especially the U.K., as well as the Americans. More of that needs to be done before we can equip hospitals or schools, and certainly an even longer time before we can send Canadian citizens, under our flag, to work in these risky conditions.

It takes me back to the comment that was made earlier about how we deeply respect the fact that on a volunteer basis a lot of dual citizens from Canada go and do things with their own money and at their own risk. But as guardians of the safety of our citizens who work for us either directly or indirectly in our assistance programs, the conditions are not there yet for us to “teach them how to fish”, as you used the famous expression.

That said, we are doing some of that in those areas where we can do this kind of work, despite security and institutional constraints. I mentioned the $2.5 million U.S. that we worked through the IMF, for instance. I also mentioned earlier that one of the dual citizens, who is the Minister of Planning, is from here. We are working there to help create.... For instance, how would you create and run a finance ministry or a revenue ministry?

I met their Prime Minister when I was in Mogadishu, and his number one priority is to find a way to create a tax system—imagine, in this place—so they have money to start having their own health and education and other programs, to which we would then be able to contribute through long-term, constructive assistance.

[Jati Sidhu, Liberal, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

You touched a little bit on the democratic system, on the election looming in 2018, the presidential election. Are Canadians able to align themselves with the government so that we can have a better influence in the upcoming election, and with whoever wins the next election, so that we can work together with them?

[Marc-André Fredette]

It's just a little bit early to tell. There's an important meeting in a few weeks, in fact, that will look at documenting what has happened since the London conference a year ago, what the next steps are, and how the international community can organize itself and be coordinated to see who is going to help with what. I can tell you that one area that will be under consideration is how we can help with things like democratic institutions.

You probably know that Somalia has a unique history related to its culture and clan system. This is something that they are debating among themselves—the relationship with some parts of what used to be the united country of Somalia: Puntland, Somaliland, and so forth. All of that is the subject of very heated debate now, and for us as foreigners, it would be highly improper to engage in how they're going to deal with that. However, we stand ready for when they do have common plans so that we can assist them in a variety of ways, including technical assistance and advice.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Nault]

Thank you, Mr. Sidhu.

Mr. Aboultaif.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

This topic is for DRC. We have the ambassador here today.

In 2011, they finally landed on a constitution. Prior to that, they had a power-sharing agreement among all the parties, which sounds like a very familiar story that runs in certain countries around the world. It is unfortunate that after all that they got President Kabila. His term is supposedly supposed to end, and there is talk that he will be replacing himself with someone he can control and that protestors are on the ground and the situation is getting worse by the day.

Since we are always extending a hand on development and toward democratic institutions and other humanitarian aid, which we always come forward with in Canada, how much of an influence do we have on the country and on the politicians to really protect and respect the constitution and put democratic institutions in place? I think that is a secret recipe for such countries to make sure that.... When all the parties respect the constitution, we know that the conflict is... or at least we'll pull in one of those reasons or causes of conflict.

Can you, Ambassador, or anyone, advise us on this issue?

[Nicolas Simard]

Thank you very much for the question.

Clearly, the political and democratic situation in the Democratic Republic of Congo is very complex. For quite some time, Canada has been involved in strengthening institutions, at least in supporting inclusive governance in the country. Obviously, we are not alone in that.

But Canada is playing an important role in the DRC. We are providing quite substantial development assistance. Last year, 2016-2017, we spent $91 million on that goal. We provide the money only to the United Nations and to Canadian and international NGOs. Not a cent goes to the Congolese government.

As for the influence we can have in strengthening institutions and having the country adhere more to its constitution, we are exerting diplomatic pressure, as a power that is likely to bring together the positive influences, if I may put it that way, of a number of international partners. We are working very hard with partners in the European Union, the United States and Switzerland. In addition, we are working more and more with the African states that border the DRC.

You have to understand that a crisis in the DRC has a major effect on the nine countries with which it shares a border. As the ambassador, I invite the other ambassadors to the Canadian ambassador’s residence in order to determine how we can jointly exert pressure that will result in adherence to the constitution.

As you said, this government is very nationalistic and not at all open to international assistance. However, I believe that, given the increasing pressure we are collectively exerting, they will eventually have to listen to reason. At least, that is my hope.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

How successful...? If you were to assess the efforts of the international community, at least the part that involves Switzerland and ourselves—and it could be the United States or some European nations or countries—how far are we from achieving at least some point where we believe that this is really going to make a difference and get the country back on track in the next so many years? How optimistic are you?

[Nicolas Simard]

As I am very optimistic by nature, I will be careful about what I am about to say.

Let me give you a concrete example. President Kabila has postponed the elections for two years. His regular mandate expired on December 20, 2016. First, he postponed the elections to 2017, then to 2018. However, following the international pressure from Canada, the United States, the European Union and the African nations in the region, he ended up publishing an electoral calendar last November, and the main steps of that calendar have been observed.

If that effort had not been made and if the government had been left to its own devices, the elections would probably have been postponed again to 2019 or 2020, or the calendar would never have been published.

I feel that those kinds of results can be achieved by becoming involved. Canada is playing a major role in becoming involved with other actors.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

I'm done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Nault]

Thank you, Mr. Aboultaif.

Mr. Saini, please.

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you very much for coming here today and providing your insight.

One of the questions I have is about elections, and you've talked about elections. Usually, elections in mature democracies are fought over ideas, but in Africa that is the furthest thing.... Elections there usually are fought over power and resources, but tribalism also has a huge impact, whereby one clan or one tribe will try to subsume the other minority tribes.

It seems to me that we talk about democracy and we try to have an impact there by making sure that elections are free and fair, but one thing that we have not tried to do—and I'm not saying Canada in general, I'm talking about the global community—in those countries that have fragile democracies or are fragile states is to change the way they do democracy, so that rather than having elections fought on tribalism or clans, their democracy would be fought on ideas, on a platform.

It seems to me that all of the violence, all of the inner strife in those countries, and the plundering of resources, even in those democratic states, starts from the issue of power that has been obtained not through ideas but because of someone being the more popular tribal leader or clan leader. Has there been any attempt to change the way they do democracy in those countries?