Foreign Affairs Committee on March 12th, 2020

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Again, Minister, sorry, but my question was very specific.

Is that situation changing the government's thinking at all with respect to security and intelligence co-operation with India?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

We're always looking at the facts. Whenever we have a co-operation, we're always looking.... As I said, you have to go back to the core principle of our foreign policy, and that is human rights. We defend human rights at every step.

Whatever agreement, whatever arrangement, whatever co-operation we have in place is always in light of that, and in respect of Canadian laws and regulations—humanitarian law, international law—and we will continue that. This is a core principle of what we do around the world.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Minister, quickly in response to that, our goal as a committee is to hold the government accountable as to whether its actions line up with those principles. We're going to agree on the stated principles, but the questions have to be in the specifics. I mean, I've asked that question twice, so let me move on to something else.

Can we get a sense of the total all-in cost of the campaign to get Canada a seat on the UN Security Council, the expenses associated specifically with campaigning, including staff time, travel and related expenses?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I don't think Canadians are very much into the accounting these days. They're more about making sure that we can get a seat on the Security Council. As I said, a seat is not an end in itself—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Sir, this is a committee hearing about the estimates, right?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I appreciate that. You can ask me the question and I'll give you the answer, but what I'm saying to you is that I don't think Canadians who are watching at home are focusing on that. They're watching to see what impact Canada can make in the world.

If you want a very specific detail, I'll tell you that as of February 24, we are talking about $2 million. I think if you compare that to the campaigns of the G7 or other countries in the world who want to make an impact—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Leona Alleslev]

You have 30 seconds.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

—I think Canadians would appreciate that this is money invested in order to make sure we have a better world.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

You're saying that $2 million includes staff time and all related expenses?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

No, I'm saying that $2 million is the amount that is spent on operational expenditures for the UN Security Council campaign.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Could you report back to this committee with an all-in cost estimate of the money that was spent on the campaign to get Canada on the Security Council?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I will be happy to report that back to the committee in a letter.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Leona Alleslev]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Now for our next five minutes, go ahead, please, MP Fonseca.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for navigating through these very trying times and for sharing with us how you're doing it with a principled approach on Canadian values and on rules-based international order, and for delving into issues that are sometimes international but also local.

I have a large Sri Lankan Tamil diaspora community in my area. A couple of weeks ago, you tweeted about how Canada was disappointed with Sri Lanka's decision to change its approach to the United Nations Human Rights Council resolution on accountability and reconciliation.

You also mentioned that Canada stands ready to support a prosperous and inclusive Sri Lanka. I want you to elaborate a little bit on that for us, and on what's planned in terms of human rights conditions and refugee relations concerns that we have with the country.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for the questions, because you've been a big advocate for the people of Sri Lanka. A lot of concern has been expressed. We are concerned. I have been asked about what we are doing.

In a very concrete way, we are quite aware of the allegations of human rights violations that were committed by General Silva during the armed conflict. As you know, we have been, I think, a leading voice around the world to call out the Sri Lankan government with respect to accountability to end impunity, and certainly to advance reconciliation.

We have expressed our concern in particular with the withdrawal of the Sri Lankan government's support for the UN Human Rights Council resolution on Sri Lanka, and we have urged the Sri Lankan government to continue providing the UN with access.

I was asked earlier what we are doing concretely. This is very concrete and this is the type of thing that the world listens to when Canada speaks around the world. We will continue to raise these issues. We do them respectfully. We do them forcefully, but we do them guided by our core principles and our values.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

Again, we live in a very diverse country. In my community, I have a large Ukrainian and Polish diaspora. I know that recently you were on a trip. You went to Ukraine, Poland and Latvia, and on that trip, what was brought up was, of course, the threat of Russia. Eastern Europe is on the front lines for many of the challenges facing the rules-based international order.

Could you please explain how those countries are fighting back and the impact that Canada, through both military members and diplomats, is playing in that effort?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Indeed, I think it was last week that I spent a week.... We started our trip in Latvia to go see our troops. As you know, the largest contingent of Canadians is in Latvia. They're doing superb work as part of the NATO mission there in Operation Reassurance.

I will say that what I heard from the President of Latvia, the Prime Minister and the Minister of Foreign Affairs was that Canadians are welcome. We are at the front line. We are providing assistance and deterrence. They were so proud to serve, and I was so proud to see them serve our country in Latvia, making a real difference. I was asked before what the Canadian difference is. Just go to Latvia and ask anyone on the street. Canadians are known and renowned for what we're doing to ensure stability and security in the Baltics.

Then we went on to Ukraine, which, as you know, is one of the relationships that dates far back. We have more than one million Ukrainians in Canada; they make up one of our largest communities. However, we're not in the Ukraine because we have 1.3 million Ukrainians in Canada. We're there because they're fighting for the values and principles of democracy, stability, security.

They had Crimea, which was illegally annexed. They're fighting in eastern Ukraine. We have Operation Unifier there. I spent time with the commander and the troops there. We have about 200 troops on that mission, providing assistance and training to the Ukrainian men and women who are, many of them, on the eastern front. I met also some amazing women. I remember one who basically led in the Maidan revolution there.

I was pleased that we spent more than an hour with President Zelenskyy of Ukraine. Obviously, Iran is a big topic when we meet, and it's not only about peace and security and how we can help reform the system. I often say that you need the three pillars of investment: stability, predictability and the rule of law. We've been asked what we can do there.

The other thing that we spent quite some time talking about is the black boxes. You may have noticed yesterday that thanks to our common pressure—both at the International Civil Aviation Organization and otherwise—the Iranian regime has said now that it will deliver the black boxes to Ukraine, or alternatively to France, for them to be downloaded.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Leona Alleslev]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Now we'll move on to the two-and-a-half-minute rounds.

MP Bergeron is next.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you. I'll go quickly.

I just want to make it clear from the outset that I'm not going to ask a question about the situation in China, not because I don't think it is important, Mr. Minister, but because we will have another opportunity to discuss the specific situation in China at another committee meeting.

Under a previous Liberal government, it was decided to promote human rights, not through pressure or sanctions, but through the economy. Faced with the failure, if I may say so, of that approach, which is obvious when we look at regimes like China, the decision was made to put human rights back on the agenda and potentially even to consider sanctions.

One of your mandates is to use the Magnitski sanctions regime to better support victims of human rights violations, by establishing a framework to ensure that assets seized from anyone who commits serious human rights violations are transferred to the victims under appropriate judicial supervision. The supplementary estimates even allocated just over $3 million for a strong sanctions regime.

So, Mr. Minister, what has been done on this file since you took office?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

As you rightly said, we have earmarked a significant amount in the budget to create a team who will ensure that the sanctions are implemented.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Many say $3 million isn't enough, but I will let you continue.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Global Affairs Canada has expertise with respect to its sanctions regime and the Magnitski sanctions.

Let me say this: it is true that we are constantly fighting for human rights in China, but we have also fought for Quebec pork producers, among others, to ensure they have access to China.

Today, the relationship with China is complex. The complexity that exists in Canada is similar to that of many other Western countries with which I have discussions. On the one hand, we can trade.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Leona Alleslev]

You have 30 seconds left.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

On the other, we need to be firm about human rights because they are part of Canadians' values and principles. That's what people want us to stand for, and I think we can do both.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Leona Alleslev]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Harris, you have the floor.