Evidence of meeting #22 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was child.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sven Spengemann
That makes good sense, and that's the safest way to proceed.
Ms. Fry, do you have a comment on this point of order?
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC
I was going to say what Rob said. It is important that we stick to the procedural rules for voting. They don't change just because we're at committee. You have to be there for the reading of the vote and you have to be there until the count is finished.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sven Spengemann
That sounds good. Thank you, Ms. Fry.
With that, we will suspend until the completion of the vote.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sven Spengemann
We have resumed. Next on our list for a three-minute round is Monsieur Bergeron.
4:30 p.m.
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
Mr. Chair, first of all, is it possible to have a more direct shot at me, rather than my Greek profile?
4:30 p.m.
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
Can you tell me whether we are planning to resume the debate on Mr. Harris's motion soon? If so, I have some proposed amendments to submit. Do I have to submit them to the clerk in advance, or can I submit them when we resume work on Mr. Harris's motion?
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sven Spengemann
We will get the advice of the clerk on that. I would encourage you not to do it now just in the interest of time. There's a possibility to do this in committee business later.
Madam Clerk, would that work?
4:30 p.m.
The Clerk of the Committee Ms. Erica Pereira
Mr. Chair, it would depend on whether the committee agrees to resume debate in today's meeting.
If you had a written version of the amendments when you presented them in committee, I would appreciate it.
4:30 p.m.
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
I have them with me, so I can submit them to you, Madam Clerk.
I don't want to delay the work of the committee any further.
May I now put my questions to the witnesses, Mr. Chair?
4:30 p.m.
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
I understand that Mr. Kamarotos would have liked to add something else in response to a question from Mr. Fonseca. I, for one, felt there was something missing. So if Mr. Kamarotos would like to add to his answer, I offer him the opportunity to do so.
4:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Defence for Children International
It’ll be my pleasure.
In fact, on the issue of repatriation of children accused of terrorism, there is currently a position statement not only from DCI, but also from a large number of reputable child justice NGOs. In this document, we clearly recommend the repatriation of children.
I also want to mention that the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child in Geneva has been seized of this issue and has already received individual appeals under the third protocol. So this issue could take on international dimensions.
I have already forwarded to the clerk the position statement on this issue. It will be translated and forwarded to all members of the committee.
Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to add this clarification.
4:35 p.m.
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Kamarotos.
I really liked Mr. Genuis's analogy that it was as if we had repatriated one of the two Michaels and left the other behind.
The question still troubles me today. Why do you think the Canadian government is refusing to do what other countries have been able to do despite the absence of representatives on the ground, namely to repatriate their nationals trapped in refugee camps in northern Syria?
4:35 p.m.
Lawyer, Champ and Associates
I wasn't sure who it was directed to. I could take a crack at it.
It's very difficult to answer, quite frankly. I was involved in this issue very early. I was representing an individual who was detained in one of those camps in early 2018. There was a great deal of engagement on the issue at that time by the foreign affairs department. It did appear that they were trying to repatriate, but I don't know what's changed since then. I don't know why Canada's policy has changed. It's deeply disappointing. As I said before, I think it's shameful for all of us.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sven Spengemann
Thank you very much, Mr. Bergeron.
Ms. McPherson, you have the final round of questions for three minutes, please.
March 11th, 2021 / 4:35 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank all our witnesses and apologize again on behalf of the committee for the break we had to take. It was unavoidable, of course. I certainly would encourage all of the gentlemen who have joined us today to share any additional testimony with the committee in writing so that we can include it in our report.
Like all of you, I'm deeply concerned about what's happening with detained children in Syria, and of course around the world. I dare say we all feel grief for what is happening in these situations.
I would like each of you, very briefly, to touch upon what you feel the long-term impacts will be on the children who have been left in the Syrian camp now for so long in such deplorable conditions.
Perhaps I would start with Mr. Champ.
4:35 p.m.
Lawyer, Champ and Associates
I'm not an expert in such matters, but I think it's easy to understand that children who've been abandoned in those circumstances.... Aside from the psychological traumas that they are no doubt experiencing today, I question how they will feel when they grow up and find out or learn that they were abandoned. I think it's profoundly traumatic. There are all kinds of studies about children during those sensitive ages and the impact on them. When those children become adults, I don't know how we'll ever explain to them why Canada didn't take action.
4:35 p.m.
Human Rights Law and Policy Campaigner, Amnesty International Canada
Like Mr. Champ, I'm unfortunately not an expert to be able to provide advice in that regard, aside from what logic dictates. That is, of course, that one can only expect that the serious conditions they are being subjected to, not just physically but also emotionally, would have a serious negative and detrimental impact on their development; and that would be the cause for concern. That is very much from a human level, based on observations that I think every one of the committee members and the witnesses can make.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
4:40 p.m.
Executive Director, Defence for Children International
Thank you.
Indeed this kind of treatment has an irreversible impact on children, and this is now proved by a lot of neuroscience studies that give this argument. Second, it is also against international law, and there have been countries condemned for that, so that's also a risk for Canada, I would say.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
4:40 p.m.
Head of Education, International Committee of the Red Cross
Thank you.
We believe and we see that children caught up in these kinds of situations globally must be treated as victims first, not as perpetrators. By treating children as victims, we are able to extend due care, due diligence and responsibility towards them, towards their complex needs—their growing needs, their emotional needs. Our failure to treat children as victims, our taking another view of them, risks changes to the way they will view the world and how they will behave as adults. We need to be very mindful of that.