Evidence of meeting #5 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was spent.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
There is one particular thing that I know that Canada has led the world in since 1995, and that is the issue of looking at paid and unpaid work. I know that's in your mandate.
Can you tell us where you are—
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sven Spengemann
No, Dr. Fry. I'm sorry. I was just trying to get a sense of where member are—
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
It sounds like she has questions to ask, though, so that's great.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sven Spengemann
Maybe, for those of you who would like to ask additional questions, if we can agree to three-minute slots and let the clerk know, then she can feed me a list, and we can continue. If we can finish short of 5:30, that's great. If we have to go to 5:30, we will and then hopefully with a very short extension finish our committee business.
That's my proposal, but I'm in your hands.
We have Ms. McPherson and then Mr. Genuis.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
I'm just putting my name forward because I do have a lot more questions.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
When we do do a round.... If you'd like me to start, I can ask that question now, but I'm also happy to wait my turn as the member of the fourth party.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
I have some additional questions that I want to ask. Maybe if I could have the five-minute round, as I think I'm the only Conservative with additional questions. Correct me if I'm wrong, colleagues, but I think one more five-minute round for the four of us would be sufficient.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sven Spengemann
Okay, why don't we lead off with you? In the meantime, colleagues can indicate to the clerk that they also wish to speak. We may not do a full round if there's no interest in doing another full round.
Mr. Genuis, go ahead, please, for five minutes.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Minister, you may not agree with this characterization, but all of us are hearing from stakeholders who are concerned and have a perception that the government is recently doing much less with Canadian charities and Canadian-based organizations and instead funnelling more dollars through UN-affiliated organizations. My perspective, and I think the perspective of many other parliamentarians, is that it is very important to be working with Canadian organizations, consulting Canadian stakeholders and being in constant dialogue with them and drawing on their expertise.
However, there's one Canadian organization that has done relatively well under your government, and I note the record of significant spending through WE Charity on international development assistance during the tenure of your government, so I wonder if you can tell us how much the Government of Canada has given to WE Charity for international development since taking office?
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON
Just getting to your first question, Garnett, I also share your passion for working with Canadian organizations. This is a top priority for me. I would note that we've been increasing, on a year-over-year basis, the percentage of our ODA that's spent on Canadian partners. In 2017-18, it was 22%; in 2019-20, it was 25%. I aim to continue with the 25% spent on Canadian partners as a minimum.
On WE, the answer is zero.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Okay, Minister, the records will show, I believe, that the government has spent at least $2 million on WE Charity activities in Kenya. You've said it's zero, and I would invite you to just review your departmental records and submit a follow-up answer in writing, because the subsequent questions presume that there was spending through WE. The NGO board in Kenya had in 2017 raised significant concerns about regulatory mischief involving WE Charity, and yet the records I was able to find through the Library of Parliament show that there was $2 million worth of spending in the 2017-19 period.
I'm just curious to know if you or your department were aware of the allegations from the NGO board in Kenya of regulatory mischief, and if that awareness impacted decisions to spend money through WE either internationally or domestically?
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON
My understanding, Garnett, is that we have not spent any money on WE from an international development point of view. I will certainly follow up with the department, but that is the information I have, and we'll look into this further. I have asked on numerous occasions, and there's nothing in our records to indicate that we have, but certainly I will follow up on this.
Thank you.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Just following up on some questions from Ms. McPherson, this is more of a comment, but I would share with you that Conservatives had the same concerns about the direction and control issue, and we believe that action is needed in response to the concerns of stakeholders on that.
Now to follow-up questions about getting dollars, specifically in Syria, to the most vulnerable people, various articles have been written such as in The Guardian, for example, about how money spent through UN-affiliated organizations has unfortunately led to the patronizing of close Assad allies. Money from UN agencies was spent, for instance, through a charity that is directed by President Assad's wife, and on UN staff running up a $9.5-million bill at the Four Seasons Hotel in Damascus that is co-owned by the Syrian Ministry of Tourism. Now, some of these organizations that are benefiting from co-operation with UN entities in the delivery of aid are on sanctions lists, but they don't apply to the activities of UN organizations.
Do you have a concern about Canadian dollars funding UN organizations that are then patronizing Syrian government-affiliated entities while delivering aid in Syria?
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON
I would just note that, from the Canadian government's perspective, we work with trusted partners, and we audit all of the projects that we fund. We—
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
But you do work with UN-affiliated organizations running aid into Syria. It is the UN you're funding to deliver those programs when it comes to Syria.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON
We work with a number of humanitarian organizations and we follow the international humanitarian law of neutrality to make sure that we are delivering to people in need. That is a top priority and principle for the Canadian government. We will continue to do that. We audit our projects as needed—
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sven Spengemann
Mr. Genuis, we have agreed to a five-minute round.
The floor is going to Dr. Fry now for five minutes, please.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC
Thank you very much, Chair.
Canada actually led, and created much of the data way back in the late 1990s, on the issue of paid and unpaid work. Even within Canada, paid and unpaid work are not really recognized.
I know that one of the things in your mandate is to look at the issue of that work. What is the plan of action? How far have you gone in moving this agenda forward?
Thanks.