Evidence of meeting #23 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was russia.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
Mélanie Joly Liberal Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC
I would say, James, that you didn't answer Jonathan's question.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
Thank you.
I would just say this, they're going to try to talk over me, Mr. Chair, they don't want to answer the questions.
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
Mélanie Joly Liberal Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC
No, you didn't answer the question: What is the position of the Conservative Party?
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
I want to know how many more—
I'm the one asking the questions here; you guys are the witnesses.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
I'll just say this: How many more atrocities are you prepared to witness in Ukraine because of the extra dollars you guys are putting into Putin's war machine?
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Marty Morantz
I'm sorry, Mr. Bezan, your five minutes is up.
Mr. Sarai, you have the floor for five minutes.
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Thank you, Chair.
My first question is for Mr. Wilkinson.
Were alternative pipeline routes through Ukraine considered, as were being proposed by Ukrainian officials, according to reports?
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC
Thank you for the question, Randeep.
Ukrainian officials did propose an alternative route for pipelines running through Ukraine itself. We reviewed that option by the Ukrainian government with technical experts from the International Energy Agency. We also discussed it with the European Union and Germany. The issue was complex. It involved the consideration of a number of technical issues.
The bottom line is that the flows that could be expected to move to Germany through the pipelines that run from Russia via Ukraine would be significantly lower than what Nord Stream, when operating at or close to full capacity, can move, and in fact significantly less than what flowed through Nord Stream in 2021.
In addition to the technical limitations, there were two other difficulties. One was that you would have to believe that Russia would be willing to flow significant incremental gas flows through Ukraine. Given that Russia has already reduced flows via Ukraine, and it stated that its view is that the technical capacity of the pipeline is actually only a third of what the Ukrainians believe it is, the likelihood of Russia doing this is not high.
Also, for Germany and other European countries, let's be clear: They currently rely on gas from Russia. The idea of essentially enabling the shutdown of Nord Steam 1 and relying completely on pipelines that run through what is presently a war zone would come with enormous risks for their economies and their citizens.
So yes, we looked at it, and at the end of the day, we deemed, and the International Energy Agency deemed, that it was not viable.
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Thank you, Minister Wilkinson.
Deputy Minister Morgan, can you please reiterate whether Global Affairs Canada was aware of any kill list that targeted locally engaged staff working at the Canadian embassy in Ukraine?
1:50 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Just to re-emphasize what Minister Joly said earlier, we take the security of all of our staff at our missions abroad extremely seriously. We're constantly monitoring the security situation and communicating regularly with staff, including our locally engaged staff.
We are not aware of any list specifically targeting locally engaged staff at the Canadian embassy in Kyiv. We've maintained constant communication with that locally engaged staff since before Russia's invasion of Ukraine and subsequently. We continue to take many actions to ensure that they can work safely, they can work remotely, and they maintain their strong connection to our embassy and are able to deliver the vital work they do on behalf of us.
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Thank you, Deputy Minister Morgan.
Minister Joly, have any of Canada's sanctions against Russia been designed to be punitive in terms of any humanitarian needs of either the Russians or any of the neighbouring countries, such as Germany, or are they designed to economically and militarily sanction Russia only? When it comes to food supply and medicine, what has Canada's position been...or the energy needs of those in Russia or around Russia?
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
Mélanie Joly Liberal Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC
I would say a couple of things on that. First and foremost, the sanctions are really to make sure that we're putting maximum pressure on Russia and Putin's regime. That's why at this point we're at 1,600 sanctioned entities and individuals.
What we've been clear with in the G7 is that since Russia is weaponizing food.... Heather referred to the 40 million lives at risk of hunger and famine right now. We work amongst the G7 to make sure that our sanctions are not affecting the exporting of grain and food to different Middle Eastern countries—Lebanon being an example, and Egypt—or African countries such as Senegal, etc., or Asian countries. This has been of paramount priority for the G7. There have been many occasions where we have reiterated that the sanctions regimes were not.... The fact that there was a food crisis was not linked to sanctions but rather linked to Putin's war of choice in Ukraine. That is a message that the Prime Minister and I clearly stated not only at the Commonwealth but also following the G7 and NATO. I also did so at the UN.
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Thank you, Minister Joly.
Chair, do I have time for another question?
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Mr. Wilkinson, can you tell us what Canada is doing to support its European allies to transition away from Russian energy?
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC
Sure. We announced that we were expanding production of oil and gas by 300,000 barrels by the end of the year. We are setting up working groups with the European Union and with Germany to focus on both liquid natural gas opportunities and hydrogen opportunities as they look to both displace Russian sources and to move on the energy transition to address domestic energy security and climate change.
1:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Marty Morantz
Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
1:55 p.m.
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Wilkinson, I'll come back to Ukraine's proposal a bit later, because I'd like you to tell us more about it.
According to media reports, a number of experts have said that the Siemens turbines were not absolutely necessary in order for the Nord Stream 1 pipeline to function effectively and that suitable alternatives were certainly available so that Russia could supply Germany and others with gas.
Did your department take those considerations into account? Could other turbines have replaced the Siemens turbines? Lastly, do you believe that Russia has no backup turbines?