Evidence of meeting #34 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pakistan.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
You're out of time, Mr. Bergeron. My apologies, but you're over six minutes.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Finally, we will go to Ms. McPherson.
You have the floor for six minutes.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to welcome the minister to our committee. I have many questions for him. He won't be surprised to hear that.
We had the opportunity to hear from CSOs and from experts and from members of his department about the humanitarian response in Pakistan. I'm very grateful for their testimony.
But I do want to ask some questions with regard to some of the other outstanding issues. The first one I want to ask him about is the humanitarian carve-out that we have still not seen for Afghanistan—again he won't be surprised to hear this.
Minister, this has been well over a year. It's very desperate. There are millions of people whose lives are at risk.
Could you be very specific on where the holdup is on that? I know you have said that you are working on this, but we are really running out of time. I'm wondering if it's your ministry, if it is another ministry. I'm wondering where civil society, where advocates, should be putting their pressure to push to make sure that this humanitarian carve-out finally happens.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Mr. Chair, I'm happy to answer these questions because, I guess, Afghanistan is next to Pakistan, so we can talk about it.
Mr. Chair, the member raises again a very good point. One thing I have stated is, yes, the current legislation does put constraints on us on how we spend that money. That's a reality.
I can tell you, just as I stated before, there hasn't been one dollar that we have held back in support. In fact, we have actually put forward $156 million. Nonetheless, those concerns are currently being addressed by my colleagues and we're looking at various options. When those options are developed, my colleagues and I will be able to say more.
Having said this, we are also looking at support for the Afghan refugees who are in Pakistan as well. We're going through some of that work before we can make public what we'll be supporting.
Thank you.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Which colleagues are those? It has been since August 2021—
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.
I know that the committee processes have a lot of latitude when a minister is appearing for estimates or supplementary estimates.
This is a very specific study that is very limited to one issue, which is Pakistan, the flood and the disaster relief. I have every confidence the minister can answer these questions, but the committee's time is very limited and very valuable. We're trying to get the most we can about Pakistan.
I think it would be appropriate to advise the member that we should be trying to talk about Pakistan and the flooding.
Afghanistan's an important issue and we can do a study on it, but this is a very important issue that we've been asked to study.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Thank you, Mr. Oliphant.
Yes, given that we have limited time to focus on the issue of Pakistan, I would ask all members to keep their questions relevant to the study at hand.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
On the point of order, Mr. Chair, I would just say that each member controls their own time. I would think that members should be able to ask the questions they want to ask that relate broadly to the topic.
I think the line of questioning was very reasonable. If you want to sound out the committee's view on it as a whole, I think you'll find a majority of the committee wants to allow this line of questioning.
I certainly am interested in the answers.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would just like to point out that the minister is here with our committee and we don't have very many opportunities to ask these questions. This is a very pressing question.
He did bring up Afghans who are in Pakistan, so perhaps I will touch on that next.
It has been since August 2021 that we have been trying to get people here. It does continuously sound like a “yep, we're working on it” sort of answer. I don't think that's sufficient when we are so far into this particular crisis. It's not fair to Afghans who worked for our country. It's not fair to Afghans who depend on Canada to stand up for them.
I can turn to another line of questioning, which is climate financing.
Could the minister tell me how much the climate financing will be part of our dedicated ODA? Will it all be considered official development assistance?
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Mr. Chair, I'm happy to elaborate on the Afghan refugees who are in Pakistan because they were affected by the floods.
I actually did speak with the Prime Minister and other ministers about the situation. There are some people who are actually ready to leave, but Pakistan has to give them exit permits. We asked them to expedite that and I was assured by the Prime Minister that they will look at this. Then we'll look at the other support that we can provide.
When it comes to some of the budgetary considerations and what's within our ODA, I'll turn to Chris on that.
4:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Development, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
The very short answer, Mr. Chair, is that all of our climate finance is considered official development assistance.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Thank you.
Mr. MacLennan, could your department possibly provide us with a little bit of written information? I don't want to waste your time as you may not have those numbers right now, but what are the amount of funds that have actually been spent to date and have they gone bilaterally or multilaterally?
I have one other question for you, Minister.
This fund does not appear to have any mechanisms or any way for small and medium organizations to access it or for the partnership branch to access it. It is all multilateral and bilateral. How are you ensuring that these funds go to those groups that most could use them?
We know that indigenous groups and women's groups tend to develop more appropriate on-the-ground climate mitigation and adaptation projects. When we are giving our money at the top level, how do you ensure that's actually happening on the ground?
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Mr. Chair, I'm actually really glad the member raises this issue.
One thing is that just because we have a $5.3 billion, it doesn't mean the other funding that we provide—whether it's for agriculture—does not include support to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
Actually, something I'm really proud of is that through FIAP, which we launched in 2017, we're seeing the positive impact. For example, there's women entrepreneurship in agriculture. We have gone to many different countries—
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
I'm sorry, Mr. Minister. I don't want to interrupt you, but does any of the specific climate financing.... Obviously, Global Affairs funds projects that support agriculture, but I'm looking at this climate financing.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Is there a mechanism to ensure that it can support indigenous and women-led initiatives?
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
4:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Development, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I would maybe turn it over to our director general.
