Evidence of meeting #20 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was dates.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
Seeing a quorum, I call the meeting to order.
Colleagues, we're continuing our consideration of Bill C-18. Today we're scheduled to do clause-by-clause consideration of this bill.
Ms. Hall Findlay has a point of order.
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
Martha Hall Findlay Liberal Willowdale, ON
Yes. This is on a motion that I raised at our last meeting, hoping to have it raised at the end of the meeting, but we ran out of time. We now have the 48 hours' notice. I'm asking the chair and my colleagues if we can deal with this motion at the beginning of the meeting rather than waiting until after clause-by-clause, just due to time constraints.
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
If the chair saw consensus or agreement around the table, he'd be happy to deal with the motion, provided there was an ironclad commitment from all the parties that we could dispose of this reasonably quickly--in other words, in five or ten minutes. If that is not ironclad, I'm just not going to take this as a point of order, and I'll go right to clause-by-clause.
On this point of order, Mr. Warkentin.
11:10 a.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
Mr. Lee, in general, I'm in full agreement. There are some questions with regard to timing and the rest of it that I think would require some discussion, so if we can fit it into the discussion later on.... In principle, we support the motion. We believe it's important that these folks come forward. We're happy to accommodate that and work with all members to make that happen, but there's just a timing issue.
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
Okay. Do we want to let Ms. Hall Findlay put the matter on the agenda and get the debate started? Then after five minutes, if it's not concluded, we will defer the matter to later on in the meeting and go to clause-by-clause.
11:10 a.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
In principle, we support it, but we don't support certain specific dates that are outlined in it, so I'm not sure. This may continue for some time.
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
If we can't dispose of this in five minutes, I'm not going to let it pre-empt our agenda. In the event we haven't--
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
Martha Hall Findlay Liberal Willowdale, ON
If I may, Mr. Chair, we can ask Michael for his opinion--
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
I'm sorry. I'm happy to listen to you, but please hear your chair out. I am suggesting that in the event we have not disposed of this within five minutes, we will take a pause, suspend the debate on it, go to clause-by-clause, and come back to it before the end of the meeting. At least it will be on the floor. Is that okay with you?
So we have five minutes. I'm going to change the agenda slightly to allow Ms. Hall Findlay to put a motion for which she has provided previous notice.
Ms. Hall Findlay.
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
Martha Hall Findlay Liberal Willowdale, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Given that this motion was circulated, do I need to read it, or is everyone all right with the written version that was circulated?
Shall I read it, then? It states:
That the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates (the “Standing Committee”) (i) request that an appropriate official from Industry Canada appear before the Standing Committee for the first thirty minutes of the meeting of the Standing Committee on Tuesday May 12, 2009 so as to provide the Standing Committee with an update of the expenditure of stimulus funds by Industry Canada pursuant to Budget 2009 and Treasury Board Vote 35 of the Main Estimates for 2009-2010; and (ii) request that an appropriate official from Human Resources and Services Development Canada (“HRSDC”) appear before the Standing Committee for the first thirty minutes of the meeting of the Standing Committee on Tuesday May 26, 2009 so as to provide the Standing Committee with an update of the expenditure of stimulus funds by HRSDC pursuant to Budget 2009 and Treasury Board Vote 35 of the Main Estimates for 2009-2010.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
Thank you for sharing that with members prior to moving it. We can now debate or discuss the motion.
Mr. Warkentin.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
In principle, I think it's a great motion if we feel we have the time to undertake these two studies. I have spoken with officials and folks and have concerns about the specific dates that are prescribed in the motion, simply because there's certainly information that won't yet be available with regard to vote 35 on those specific dates.
If it be the will of the committee that we remove the dates and still call for this motion, that would be, I'm hoping, a friendly amendment. I can't guarantee which dates those folks will be available on. I'll tell you that in principle we support it, but not necessarily with the prescribed dates.
11:15 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
I'm just a little confused as to your status, Chris. You seem to be the spokesperson for the Government of Canada and not a member of this committee. We're not asking your permission for whether we do this--
11:15 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
--and it's not really up to you to contact government officials and arrange dates for them to appear before this committee. I get a little bit tired of the role you've taken on in this committee. I don't know if you're a parliamentary secretary or if you just think you're the spokesperson for the Government of Canada, but we'll decide what we study and we'll decide what witnesses we call. It's not up to you to go and do it for us and check their availability. We have staff here on the committee, such as the clerk, etc., who will do that for us.
11:15 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
I have the floor. You have the floor about 90% of the time in this committee. I have the floor right now.
I agree with Martha Hall Findlay's motion. I think we should vote on it and go ahead.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
It absolutely is not my intention to do anything other than serve as a member of the committee.
Mr. Martin, I have the floor now. You had a complaint earlier, when you were being interrupted. I have the floor now.
We on this side of the table have a reason for voting against something when we know that the dates prescribed do not coincide with information being available. That is the reason we would choose to vote against it. The only reason we're choosing to vote against it is if in fact those dates are the ones that are included.
I'm letting you know that we can work by consensus, as we have in the past, to simply work out the dates so that we can ensure that everything happens. Or we can simply remove the dates, as we have in the past, and work together in a manner that's more consensual, and we can move forward. That's the only point.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Martha Hall Findlay Liberal Willowdale, ON
I will just say that the dates are there for the specific reason that vote 35 was the request to approve a very large sum of money—$3 billion—without the detail. These are unusual circumstances. The fact that we're going to be getting supplementary estimates in due course may answer some of those questions, but these dates are here specifically because of the request to support this large amount of money without the normal process. The timing is actually critical.
I will volunteer that if you cannot support this with those dates and would require those dates to be removed or to have later dates, that's an amendment we would not accept.
If that's the case, would it just go to a vote?
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
This vote could end up in a tie, and I'd rather not have to break a tie.
I'm a little confused as to why we couldn't reach some agreement on the dates. This particular motion feeds into a matter that the clerk will be raising later in terms of our future business and our review of the stimulus package. We should take some care.
I think we're actually fairly close on this, given that we have not allocated meeting time. We have some unallocated meeting time on the 14th and later. I think we should be able to discuss the broader picture of future business on the stimulus package and the motion together, unless, Ms. Hall Findlay, you--
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
Martha Hall Findlay Liberal Willowdale, ON
Mr. Chair, I understand your concerns, and I understand that it's never comfortable for a chair to have to cast a deciding vote, but I do wish to have this motion voted on at this point.