Evidence of meeting #18 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was billion.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Michelle d'Auray  Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Bill Matthews  Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management, Treasury Board Secretariat
Christine Walker  Assistant Secretary and Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Services, Treasury Board Secretariat
Sally Thornton  Executive Director, Expenditure Operations and Estimates, Expenditure Management, Treasury Board Secretariat

4:35 p.m.

Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat

Michelle d'Auray

Mr. Chair, we have circulated a summary presentation of what is contained in the supplementary estimates (B). The minister covered a fair number of these elements in his opening remarks. We can quickly go through them if you'd like--as you have them in front of you--or we can just continue to take questions. It is your call.

4:35 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

I think it's up to the committee. We've already heard some individuals say they would rather just continue with the questioning.

Is there any input on how we would like to proceed?

4:35 p.m.

NDP

Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

I would like to hear the presentation.

4:35 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

You'd like to hear the presentation. Okay.

Can you keep it to five or ten minutes, so we have the maximum amount of time?

4:35 p.m.

Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat

Michelle d'Auray

Bill's fast.

4:35 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Bill is fast. Okay.

4:35 p.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management, Treasury Board Secretariat

Bill Matthews

I will commit to five to ten minutes.

4:35 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Very good.

4:35 p.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management, Treasury Board Secretariat

Bill Matthews

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will move fairly quickly, and I will not repeat anything that was covered in our earlier discussions.

Slide 2 is a quick overview of how our estimates document is organized and what you'll find in it. There is an introductory section that provides some details on changes. There are then details by department. Then you'll see the proposed schedule to the appropriations bill.

I will remind members at this point that Parliament does not approve estimates; Parliament approves the appropriation act. These estimates are tabled to support the study of that appropriation act.

Another reminder is that there are statutory forecasts updated in this document. Again, they are there for information only. If you see an S beside something in the estimates document, it means it's statutory. Other items that we're actually seeking votes on do not have the S beside them.

As to another little trick of the trade, if you see an item in the document that is underlined, it means it has been adjusted. So if you see an S with an underline, it's an updated forecast. That is to help you decode these documents.

You will see in here allocations from Treasury Board central votes. I believe you are aware that there are central votes for such things as operating budget carry-forwards and capital budget carry-forwards. There are allocations from those votes in here as well. The horizontal items have been discussed already.

I will make only one point about slide 3. In the supplementary estimates (B), there is a non-budgetary item, a reduction of $1.4 billion. To refresh your memory, non-budgetary items include things such loans where there is no impact on the surplus or deficit of the government. So the negative $1.4 billion you're seeing here is because the government received an early repayment of its loan to Chrysler Canada. Because it was an early repayment, it was not forecast originally in the previous estimates document. It's showing up here as a reduction in the non-budgetary amount, because Chrysler repaid $1.4 billion ahead of schedule.

4:35 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Who does that? Chrysler, apparently.

4:35 p.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management, Treasury Board Secretariat

Bill Matthews

While we're on the auto deal, GM made an early repayment as well. So it's not unique to just Chrysler, but this fiscal year it was just Chrysler.

In slide 4, we have the history of the last couple of years of estimates. I think we've gone through that in enough detail that I won't touch on it for now.

In slide 5, we have for you highlights of major voted items in this estimates document, supplementary estimates (B). I won't read them all for you but just bring to your attention that you've got some clean energy programs. You will see a fair amount in this document about the estimates related to clean energy programs.

There are supplementary health benefits for nursing services in remote and isolated first nations of $218 million.

There is assessment management remediation of contaminated sites for $218 million as well. Again, just to highlight the difference between estimates and the budget, this is the amount that is intended to be spent this year to remediate contaminated sites. The actual contaminated sites liability for the Government of Canada is much greater than this, but this is the amount of money that is to be spent this year.

We also have an update to the Indian Residential Schools Settlement Agreement of $179 million.

About the write-off of student loan debts of $151 million, there is a bit of context. For about 95% of these loans, the statute of limitations has kicked in. They're more than six years' old. CRA has been trying to collect them, and that time is now expired. When that happens, we write them off. This is a fairly regular occurrence. If you're curious about debt write-off related to student loans, roughly 87% of student loans get repaid these days. There's an outstanding receivable related to Canada student loans, if I recall correctly, of close to $14 billion on the government's financial statements.

Slide 6 is dedicated to environmental spending. Again, I've mentioned the clean air agenda already, but there are five pieces to this and you'll see funding in supplementary estimates (B). These are some of the horizontal items related to adaptation, clean air regulatory agenda, and other items. These are items that include multiple departments, so you will see things like the ecoENERGY retrofit homes program, as well as the clean transportation initiatives. There's a variety of departments implicated here. I've already mentioned the federal contaminated sites action plan related to environmental liabilities.

Turning to reprofiles, something that is not included in the estimates documents but which I think is of interest to members is that when a department does not spend the money in the previous fiscal year because of project delays, etc., it can reprofile it into the new year, which basically means it transfers the authority to spend from one year to the next. Because Parliament approves appropriation bills on an annual basis, we need Parliament's approval to spend that money again, even though it's already been approved in a previous year. So roughly $2 billion of these estimates relate to reprofiles. It's not new money; it's money that was initially envisaged to be spent in a previous year but the department has made its case and brought it forward to be reprofiled.

The minister already spoke about the infrastructure stimulus fund, at $709 million, as well as the Building Canada fund communities component top-up of $163 million.

Roughly speaking, about $2 billion of these estimates are reprofiled. You will not see anything in the estimates document that actually indicates what's a reprofile and what is not. So I just thought I would indicate—and here I see that Mr. Wallace is rolling his eyes—that it's one of the changes we're contemplating making, but that's a longer term view.

Turning to the statutory items on slide 8, we've got two types. On some items we're just revising the estimate. I've got that list of three: fiscal equalization, public debt, and payments to Export Development Canada, which is the negative number because of the Chrysler Canada repayment. Then we've got a separate list for forecasts that you're seeing for the first time here, and we've spoken a bit about two of those statutory items in the earlier round.

I will highlight for you that AECL shows up in both statutory and voted items, the distinction being that the statutory item relates to the divestiture, that is the sale of part of AECL to the private sector. So there is a split between the voted and statutory items. The statutory item is for the divestiture.

In conclusion, these supplementary estimates detail the $6.6 billion that we've discussed, including the split between voted and statutory items the minister has already talked about it. And towards the back of the estimates document, you will actually see the appropriation act schedule—basically how these estimates turn into an appropriation act. That's there for your information, as well.

We do have 68 departments and agencies covered by these supplementary estimates (B) and 22 horizontal initiatives, which the secretary has already spoken about.

So I think I have honoured my five-to-ten-minute commitment.

4:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

4:40 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Yes, and you packed an awful lot into it there, too. Bill, thank you for that. I think it was time well spent.

4:40 p.m.

Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat

Michelle d'Auray

And if I may, Mr. Chair, we have also added to slides 10 and 11 of your deck the specific elements with regard to the Treasury Board Secretariat estimates, which we have talked about in and out of the discussion. They're there for your information.

4:40 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

That's very helpful. Thank you for that.

I think we, as a committee, agreed to just carry on where we left off in the order of rotation. When we ended with the minister, it was the Liberals' turn.

Sean, are you prepared to take your five minutes now?

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

I'll do my best, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

4:40 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

I'm sure you will.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

I want to start with your slide number 8. I'm sure it is obvious to you that I'm not John McCallum in any way, shape, or form, so please take this down to the simplest level you can.

Slide 8 refers to the Department of Finance and federal-provincial fiscal arrangements with Ontario and P.E.I. Obviously, what captured my interest was P.E.I. That's where I'm from.

What are these?

4:45 p.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management, Treasury Board Secretariat

Bill Matthews

Just bear with me for one moment.

4:45 p.m.

Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat

Michelle d'Auray

The $952.1 million is what is described as the total transfer protection of the fiscal arrangements.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

I'm on the last bullet. I think you're on the first one.

4:45 p.m.

Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat

Michelle d'Auray

Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, this one, okay.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Now if you've got an extra $800 million kicking around, and you want to....

November 24th, 2011 / 4:45 p.m.

An hon. member

It's a lot of potatoes.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Yes, it is a lot of potatoes.

Anyway, go ahead.