Evidence of meeting #34 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was main.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Pat Martin
We will suspend and discuss this for a moment.
Would the officials contemplate sticking around for another 15 or 20 minutes, please?
4:43 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Pat Martin
We will resume the meeting.
We have the officials from the Treasury Board Secretariat here to answer our questions regarding the supplementary estimates (C) or the main estimates.
I thank the three of you for remaining.
I don't know how you want to go in the rotation, but it would have been the Conservatives' turn, had they chosen to avail themselves of it, when the minister was here.
Does anyone from the Conservatives want their five minutes?
4:43 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
I personally don't need five minutes, but I'll take the first round, if that's okay.
4:43 p.m.
NDP
4:43 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
This is really two things.
On the Treasury Board central votes, how is it determined how much money to estimate? How do you figure out how to calculate it?
4:43 p.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
What they're based on is, I would say, historical perspectives of what normally departments would need. The operating budget carry-forward, for example, is based on the fact that departments can carry forward 5% of their operating vote. We do an estimate, grosso modo, of what has been.... If you took the 5% of everybody and then adjusted it for those who are likely to be able to avail themselves of this.... That's how we get to those amounts.
It's the same thing for the capital budget.
What we do, for example, for the contingency votes is again based on past practice.
The carry-forwards are probably a little bit more structured, because they are based on the operating votes and the capital votes of existing organizations.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Just explain to me, then, why the vote is centralized. Is it just an accounting thing so as to be able to move money around easier?
4:45 p.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
No, because, Mr. Chair, we have to look at what is admissible for the carry-forward. We have to be able to determine whether they have used up all of their existing votes. So it's not tasked.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
4:45 p.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
It is.
4:45 p.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
It's not a pass; it's not an automatic.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
I'm department A and I think I've saved my 5% to carry forward, but it actually has to get approval through your office.
4:45 p.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
That's correct.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
I didn't know that. There you go.
The other question I had was about the $1.3 billion that we set aside that everyone was excited about before because they thought we were giving out severance packages, but they were actually payments for voluntarily leaving.
If I caught it correctly, about 60% of that has been used up. How much of it has been used?
4:45 p.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I think about 60% has been allocated.
About $800 million, I believe, has been allocated.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Does that happening mean that as an employee I've had to voluntarily take the money in advance of ever leaving, just because it's owed to me?
How was it distributed, and what triggered the distribution?
4:45 p.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Mr. Chair, as the collective agreements were signed and the bargaining agents agreed to these components, each department notified the individuals who are members of that union or bargaining unit and indicated to them...they got their specific numbers. They were told, “Here is how many weeks of severance you have and here is what you're admissible for. Do you want to take it? Here's the date by which you have to indicate to us.”
Once those were done, then the departments compiled them, told us what they were, and we transferred the amounts to them.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
4:45 p.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
No, we transferred them to the department, for the department to be able to pay them out.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
And do they pay full tax on this money, or how is it treated?
4:45 p.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Yes, it's taxable income.