Evidence of meeting #43 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was alberta.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Shannon Dean  Senior Parliamentary Counsel and Director of House Services, House Services Branch, Legislative Assembly of Alberta
Philip Massolin  Committee Research Coordinator, Committees Branch, Legislative Assembly of Alberta
Paul Thomas  Professor Emeritus, Political Studies, University of Manitoba, As an Individual

3:55 p.m.

Senior Parliamentary Counsel and Director of House Services, House Services Branch, Legislative Assembly of Alberta

Shannon Dean

I'm not aware of any.

I understand that you invited the Alberta Ministry of Finance or the Treasury Board to be in attendance here today. Unfortunately, those questions would be better posed to them.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON

Okay. Just to get the timing right, does your fiscal year begin on April 1?

3:55 p.m.

Senior Parliamentary Counsel and Director of House Services, House Services Branch, Legislative Assembly of Alberta

Shannon Dean

Yes, it does.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON

The budget and the estimates come out before the beginning of the next fiscal year.

3:55 p.m.

Senior Parliamentary Counsel and Director of House Services, House Services Branch, Legislative Assembly of Alberta

Shannon Dean

That's correct.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON

These other documents, the business plans and the performance reporting, when do they come out?

3:55 p.m.

Senior Parliamentary Counsel and Director of House Services, House Services Branch, Legislative Assembly of Alberta

Shannon Dean

They are tabled at the same time as the estimates are tabled, which is at the time of the budget address.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON

That's quite amazing. People get everything all at once.

3:55 p.m.

Senior Parliamentary Counsel and Director of House Services, House Services Branch, Legislative Assembly of Alberta

Shannon Dean

That's correct.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON

Well I think that's one way in which you do much better than we do.

On this three-hour maximum limit, does that mean that if the committee wanted to have more than three hours it would not be able to?

3:55 p.m.

Senior Parliamentary Counsel and Director of House Services, House Services Branch, Legislative Assembly of Alberta

Shannon Dean

That's correct. It's a fairly strict schedule.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON

On this question of government possibly being held to ransom, I'm not sure it's a problem in Alberta where you have majority governments all the time. But in theory would the opposition be able to filibuster or drag things out so as to cause the budget not to be implemented?

3:55 p.m.

Senior Parliamentary Counsel and Director of House Services, House Services Branch, Legislative Assembly of Alberta

Shannon Dean

As you know, there are all sorts of techniques for filibustering. There could be amendments that needed to be voted upon or departments singled out for separate votes, which would prolong the process.

4 p.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON

I think part of the advice we've been given by others is that you need to have the deemed approved rule or else the opposition could prolong this process almost until eternity.

Is that an issue in Alberta, or not?

4 p.m.

Senior Parliamentary Counsel and Director of House Services, House Services Branch, Legislative Assembly of Alberta

Shannon Dean

It hasn't been.

4 p.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON

Okay. One other issue that's sometimes a bit controversial here is when governments can shift funds from one block to another without telling parliamentarians.

Is that an issue in Alberta? What are the rules with regard to governments shifting funds from one allotment to another?

4 p.m.

Senior Parliamentary Counsel and Director of House Services, House Services Branch, Legislative Assembly of Alberta

Shannon Dean

We would consider that a transfer, and that would necessitate a supplementary estimate.

4 p.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON

So MLAs would have to be informed of that, if it were to happen?

4 p.m.

Senior Parliamentary Counsel and Director of House Services, House Services Branch, Legislative Assembly of Alberta

Shannon Dean

That's correct. It would go to the committee of supply.

4 p.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON

Thank you very much.

4 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Okay, John, very good. Thank you very much.

For the Conservatives, Mr. Peter Braid.

You have five minutes, Peter.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our guests for being here this afternoon.

I'm also going to come back to this issue of the main estimates reflecting the budget and potential issues of confidentiality. The question may be better answered by the finance or treasury board representatives from the province, but I will try anyway.

I'm curious to know how the Alberta system, where the mains reflect the budget, would deal with a situation where there is a new government program or some information being announced in the budget that might entail some market sensitivity and would be reflected in the mains. Many of us around the table here are trying to wrap our heads around how the system in Alberta, the process or the bureaucracy, would deal with that potentially confidential, market-sensitive budget information.

4 p.m.

Senior Parliamentary Counsel and Director of House Services, House Services Branch, Legislative Assembly of Alberta

Shannon Dean

Again, I think those questions are better put to the departmental officials. All I can say is that the documents—the estimates, the fiscal update, the fiscal plan, and the ministry business plans—are all tabled at the same time, when the Minister of Finance gives the budget address.

We of course have a budget lock-up, like most jurisdictions.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

If there is a new initiative in the budget, is there any document tabled following the budget, or would that perhaps be picked up in one of the supplementary estimates?

4 p.m.

Senior Parliamentary Counsel and Director of House Services, House Services Branch, Legislative Assembly of Alberta

Shannon Dean

If it's a new program for the forthcoming fiscal year I would presume it's reflected in the main estimates document that's tabled at the same time the program is announced in the budget address.