Government Operations Committee on Nov. 26th, 2014

[Michael Vandergrift]

There are the service standards for high-volume regulatory authorizations. Where there are regulatory authorizations of a sufficient number, departments are required to put in place service standards for providing those authorizations and then reporting on progress against those service authorizations as well.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

These were all as a result of the extensive consultations that were done prior to the announcement of the red tape reduction action plan. The consultations meant that members of our government sat down at round tables with small business groups across the country and said, “Tell us, warts and all, what your experience is with federal regulation, because that's our jurisdiction, and how we can ameliorate some of those concerns.” Really, this is, as I mentioned already, a real partnership with the small business community to make some tangible difference.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you.

As well in this process, I think one of the more important things, from the hourly savings that my colleagues talked about, to the dollar savings that can be had from this particular rule, for one rule in particular.... As well, as you know, there's a saving of time and there's a saving of dollars, but can you indicate to me what you think the mindset change is in our bureaucracy in regard to being in government and in regard to this type of regulation being in place for over a year already, and if you see a change in attitude in regard to before we even look at most of the bills, before you're bringing in any new regulations?

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Sure.

Obviously, culture change is at least initially a work in progress. These things don't happen overnight, but I believe that the fact.... Everybody has to come to Treasury Board at some time or another. Having us as the filter, where we have the weekly reports that Michael drafts on where we stand with one-for-one, and where we have the Treasury Board submissions having a small business lens component when they are dealing with regulatory change, means that it is set in the mind of the drafter of the regulation as well as the considerer of the regulation, that is to say, members of the Treasury Board, such that this is top of mind.

In all honesty, these things don't happen overnight, Mr. Maguire, but I think we've made a good step. Certainly it is becoming part of the standard routine in government that these are issues that the Treasury Board and, by extension, initially our caucus—and should this bill be passed, then all parliamentarians—have an interest in, in seeing the success of this kind of operation.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you.

I guess as well that all types of regulations.... It's an excellent mechanism, but there are a lot of other types of regulations. They're not all of equal heft, I guess you could say, so from an expense point of view, how do you find groups adhering to it? I wonder if you could explain if you've taken any measures through this legislation to take into consideration the costs of the implementation of some of these as well.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Yes, not much cost in implementation, but Michael may want to...if I've missed something.

[Michael Vandergrift]

There are certain steps the departments are required to undertake to propose and develop a regulation. That's laid out in a cabinet directive on regulatory management, which is a public document.

Departments are required to do a cost-benefit analysis and consultations and to calculate administrative burden and the small business lens. These are steps that departments are required to take as part of developing and moving forward with regulations and providing the evidence base to ensure the regulation will achieve what it's intended to achieve.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Only the incremental cost has to be absorbed in-house by each regulating department or agency.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Maguire.

Mr. Ravignat, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

When I talk to small businesses in my riding and I mention this, they're not fully understanding what it means for them. I'm wondering if there has been or if there will be outreach done that explains this to the mom-and-pop shop that's doing great work with 25 employees or fewer. How are we going to tell them how it affects them?

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Sure. I think that's a critical component of this. I'd be, with tongue in cheek, a little bit happy to provide wording for your next householder—

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

—so that you can help us get the word out, but aside from that, we continue to partner with the CFIB—

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

It may not be printed exactly as you wish.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I'll have to use my proofreading abilities on that.

We continue to work with small business organizations like the CFIB. They have constant newsletters where this kind of thing is a topic of conversation.

Yes, I know that it's not necessarily headlining the nightly televised news, but I believe that we are working with the right people to get the message out about how important this is.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Well, anyway, I definitely encourage you to try to get deep into the roots of the business community, to really have them wrap their heads around how it affects them.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Sure.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

I'll come back to some of the discretionary or arbitrary powers that are going to be given to the President of the Treasury Board, to you yourself.

Clause 6, for example, says “may establish policies or issue directives respecting the manner in which section 5 is to be applied.”

Pursuant to clause 7, the Governor in Council may also make regulations respecting the regulations that the Treasury Board “may exempt from the application of that section and the categories for which, and the circumstances in which, such an exemption may be granted.”

Have there been exceptions, and if there have been exceptions, of what type?

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

We do have to make it a determination whether something is subject to the one-for-one rule or not, and so those are made in a matter of course, and obviously, as I keep mentioning, health and safety ones are not ones that we're interested in.

Are there any others, Mike?

[Michael Vandergrift]

There have been exceptions for non-discretionary types of measures, for example, economic sanction measures where it's part of our international obligations. So those have been—

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

So there's been enough for you to think that it belongs in the legislation?

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Well, I think it's hard to envisage every single circumstance in which that is done. That's why there does have to be some regulatory authority provided in the bill to deal with exceptions we haven't thought of.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Fair enough.

There's another thing that my business community tells me in my riding when we talk about red tape. They talk about taxes. But according to the cabinet directive on regulatory management, exceptions to the one-for-one rule include regulations related to tax and tax administration. Why not tackle that in this bill?

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

The taxation authority is obviously a separate authority that the executive council shares with Parliament, and we did not feel that it was appropriate to infringe on that.