Government Operations Committee on March 12th, 2015

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Late yesterday.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Yesterday he just suddenly decides on a whim that he's not going to come. That is completely unacceptable.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Thank you, Mr. Ravignat.

I'm aware of the time, and I'm aware we have a panel of witnesses who have done us the courtesy of being here to make a presentation.

Mr. Kerr.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Mr. Chair, because we have witnesses, we can get on with it. We could continue the hyperbole for a long time here.

What I suggest we do then, if you want, is to make a motion to reinvite the witness and give the witness a chance to come here and explain, as opposed to condemning him before he's even before us.

If it's in order, I will move a motion to reinvite the witness, and you set the date, as chair, as to when the witness appears.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

The motion is in order and it opens up debate on the motion.

Mr. Ravignat.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Let me see if we can find an amendment that might bring us closer to some form of agreement.

I think it would be fine, if we were clear that we were unhappy—and we can choose the word that we would like—that we have concerns over the fact that our letter was not responded to positively by the commissioner, and that the commissioner be specifically asked to appear at the next meeting, not leaving it open-ended, but at the next meeting.

That would be my amendment.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Did the clerk understand the amendment?

[The Clerk]

Could he be asked if it would be possible to—

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Mr. Ravignat, could you recapitulate that in a concise form?

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

First, that a form of concern be expressed by the committee, in written form, that the commissioner negatively responded to a letter from the committee to appear, and second, that in our request for him to appear again, it be clear that it be at the next meeting.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

If you could leave the actual wording to us, Mr. Ravignat, we can express that tone—that the committee is not pleased that the commissioner couldn't attend. In a diplomatic way, we can express this and urge his attendance by invitation at the next meeting.

Is there any further debate on the amendment?

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

The amendment does not carry. The debate, then, is on the main motion, that the committee invite the integrity commissioner to the next available meeting.

Is that acceptable, Mr. Kerr?

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

It is “reinvite”, sir.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

To reinvite the integrity commissioner to the next available meeting.

Is there further debate?

Mr. Brahmi.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm trying to understand this motion and look at it from a French perspective. I feel that the word “invite”, which I would translate as “inviter”, does not express the agent's obligation to appear before Parliament. It does not remind him of his obligation to appear before Parliament.

I know that the word “summon” was initially proposed, and that would probably be translated as “convoquer”. However, I would translate “convoquer” as “convene” or “call”. The word “summon” may be too strong. It may be lacking the diplomacy and the respect due to the position, but I think the word “inviter” absolutely doesn't render the idea of a legal obligation to report to Parliament. I don't think that term is appropriate. That is why I will vote against the motion.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Thank you, Mr. Brahmi.

Just for information, we could not return to the word “summon” because it has already been voted down within the context of the same meaning. We can't vote again on the same issue twice.

Is there any further debate? Seeing none, the question is on the motion by Mr. Kerr.

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

The motion is carried and I believe the issue is resolved for the purposes of this meeting.

We will move on then to the orders of the day.

I offer my great apologies to the representatives here today from Shared Services Canada. First they were made to wait until the vote had finished in the House of Commons, and now they've had to suffer through a prolonged debate about committee business.

One of the witnesses was forced to leave already. Elizabeth Tromp, the acting senior assistant deputy minister and chief financial officer for corporate services, unfortunately had to excuse herself. Perhaps someone else can read her presentation.

Mr. Radford, if you wouldn't mind, introduce the rest of your panel and proceed with Ms. Tromp's presentation.

Thank you.

[Kevin Radford, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Shared Services Canada]

Good morning.

My name is Kevin Radford. I'm the senior assistant deputy minister of operations, and I'm accompanied by Manon FiIlion, director general of finance and deputy chief financial officer at Shared Services Canada.

We are pleased to be here today to discuss the funding that our department is seeking, as provided under supplementary estimates (C), tabled recently in Parliament.

I will start by updating you on the progress the department has made in delivering on its mandate to transform, consolidate and standardize how the government manages its IT infrastructure, particularly in the areas of email, data centres, telecommunications and improved security.

The email transformation initiative is a complex project that involves converting 63 separate email systems and 3 technology platforms of 43 organizations to a new system. Shared Services Canada has now begun to migrate to the new system. The plan is to migrate all departments over the course of the fiscal year.

The department's data centre consolidation is moving ahead. Shared Services Canada currently has three operational enterprise data centres in Gatineau, Borden—on the Canadian Forces base—and Barrie that provide the Government of Canada with the capacity needed to move data and applications out of old data centres and into the new. Shared Services Canada has closed a total of 49 legacy data centres over the past two years. At the end of this initiative, the government's data centre footprint will have shrunk from 485 to no more than 7.

Under the telecommunications transformation program, as of December 2014, almost 38,000 traditional land-lines have been migrated to the more cost-effective voice over Internet protocol, and just over 11,000 traditional land-lines have been migrated to cellular services. SSC is also upgrading and better connecting federal video conferencing and enhancing Wi-Fi services.

Shared Services Canada is also delivering on its mandate by consolidating and standardizing the procurement of workplace technology devices. These include operating system software and basic desktop applications such as word processing software. While the government spends about $660 million a year in this area, Shared Services Canada is negotiating new contracts and now buys these essential tools in bulk, providing consolidated savings.

Shared Services Canada is developing a more integrated approach to improve security for the Government of Canada. Working closely with our security partners, we have created a security operations centre that provides 24-7 prevention and detection services, and a dedicated response and recovery team that directly supports our partner departments. These security services include a supply chain integrity process that is part of all Shared Services Canada's procurements.

I will now turn to the supplementary estimates overview. The supplementary estimates (C) for Shared Services Canada represent an increase of $39.9 million in the department's reference levels.

The first component is $34.3 million in new funding. The majority of this new funding, $32.5 million, will be used to create a more secure IT environment for the National Research Council, following last year's cyber-attack. Shared Services Canada, in collaboration with the National Research Council and Communications Security Establishment Canada, is building a new and secure information technology infrastructure for the National Research Council on an accelerated basis. A portion of the supplementary estimates' financing for the National Research Council is to acquire new network services to take advantage of our new data centre infrastructure and the associated security benefits of this new architecture.

The remainder of the new funding outlined in supplementary estimates (C)—$1.8 million—will support the IT infrastructure that will allow two of our partner departments, Employment and Social Development Canada and Citizenship and Immigration Canada, to upgrade their IT applications to reflect the reforms implemented in 2014 in the temporary foreign worker program, as well as provide additional storage and database capacity and connectivity.

The second component of Shared Services Canada's supplementary estimates (C) is proposed net transfers from our partner organizations, some for adjustments related to Shared Services Canada's creation and others related to specific projects and initiatives.

Let me share with you a couple of highlights of these transfers. Proposed for transfer from Public Works and Government Services Canada is $1.8 million. The transfer is for the closure of three legacy data centres in Ottawa and one in Toronto. From National Defence, $1.3 million is identified for transfer for services and equipment in support of the Mercury Global military wideband satellite project, as well as for support of IT-related renovations at the Royal Military College in Kingston, Ontario.

All these activities are helping Shared Services Canada to improve savings, security, and service. Moreover, by providing secure, robust, modern IT infrastructure, Shared Services Canada is helping our partner departments to achieve their priorities while they deliver services to Canadians.

My colleagues and I will be pleased to answer your questions. Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Thank you very much, Mr. Radford.

Are there any further presentations from the panel?

[Alex Lakroni, Chief Financial Officer, Finance and Administration Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Chair, committee members, I am pleased to be here today as the Chief Financial Officer of Public Works and Government Services Canada, or PWGSC, to discuss the department's 2014-2015 supplementary estimates (C).

With me are Brigitte Fortin, Assistant Deputy Minister of the Accounting, Banking and Compensation Branch, and Pierre-Marc Mongeau, Assistant Deputy Minister of the Real Property Branch.

PWGSC supports the consistent delivery of high-quality services to Canadians and measured value for the tax dollars with which it is entrusted. These ongoing achievements are the result of sound financial management and a steadfast focus on client service.

With responsibilities that range from preserving the Parliament buildings to issuing all Government of Canada payments, PWGSC provides a diversified portfolio of services that support the Canadian public, parliamentarians and public servants, and also help departments and federal agencies deliver on their mandate.

In these supplementary estimates (C), the department is seeking net funding of just over $51 million, bringing PWGSC's 2014-15 net spending authorities from $2,930 million to $2,981 million. Within the requested funding is $17 million to cover non-discretionary expenses associated with the Receiver General's acceptance of bank and credit cards, such as price and volume increases in banking fees and postage fees. The card acceptance initiative is helping the government fulfill its e-commerce commitment while reducing the administrative burden associated with cheque and cash payments. It also offers increased payment options and greater accessibility for Canadians. In this fiscal year there is over $4 billion of bank and credit card payments made by Canadians through more than 10 million electronic card transactions.

These supplementary estimates are also seeking the authority to access just over $16 million from the sale or transfer of 13 real property assets that occurred during this fiscal year. These proceeds of sale will be reinvested in the life-cycle management of PWGSC's multi-billion dollar asset base. More specifically, these funds will be used for material and direct labour costs, management fees, construction supervision, and the design of projects that are required to maintain the integrity of assets. Such projects include work on roofs, exterior claddings, as well as mechanical and electrical systems.

The department is also requesting the reimbursement of $9 million related to the cost of office space occupied by employees who administer pension funds. Pursuant to the Public Sector Pension Investment Board Act, Bill C-78, the costs associated with the administration of the public service's major pension funds are to be charged to the respective funds and not borne by federal departments.

As a result of responsibilities transferred from the former Enterprise Cape Breton Corporation to PWGSC in June 2014, $5 million is being requested for environmental and other obligations. The department's new responsibilities associated with the transfer of Cape Breton operations fall under three main areas. First is the management of lands impacted by local mining, including the remediation, long-term maintenance, and monitoring of former mine sites and water treatment facilities. Second is the management of former miners' benefits, such as early retirement incentive programs, medical benefits, and life insurance coverage. Third is the portfolio management of real property holdings encompassing over 800 properties covering some 12,500 acres.

PWGSC is also requesting $2 million to cover occupancy costs at the National Library and Public Archives building, which serves as the substitute location for the current ceremonial events room for the House of Commons until the renovation of the Sir John A. Macdonald Building is complete.

Finally, PWGSC will receive a net amount of $2 million from other government departments. This is mainly for the remediation of the south jetty at the Esquimalt graving dock in British Columbia, as part of the federal contaminated sites action plan. This is consistent with our effort to lower risks to human health and the environment, to benefit local communities and to reduce the burden of future environmental liability for all Canadians.

In keeping with the government's priorities of job creation, economic growth and long-term prosperity for Canadians, the department supports the consistent delivery of high-quality services to Canadians and a continued focus on value for money.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members.

My colleagues and I would be pleased to answer your questions.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Thank you, Mr. Lakroni and Mr. Radford, for your presentations.

Committee members, we have now heard the arguments in favour of supporting supplementary estimates (C) for 2014-15 for the Department of Public Works and Government Services and Shared Services Canada.

I believe we have time for one complete round of questioning, but I would like to put the question to the committee and vote on these supplementary estimates before the end of the day today. I ask you to please keep that in mind. We will need 10 minutes or so. We can either approve these estimates, we can defeat these estimates, or we can reduce these estimates. Those are our options when the time comes.

Going directly to five minute rounds of questions, we have Mr. Mathieu Ravignat for the official opposition.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to begin by thanking the witnesses for being with us today. I also want to thank them for their patience. Parliament is a strange place, so this is completely normal.

I have some questions about the funding allocated to PWGSC in the supplementary estimates, specifically regarding contaminated sites. What specific sites are associated with that transfer of funds?

[Pierre-Marc Mongeau, Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

Thank you for your question.

Mr. Chair, that money will mainly be used for the remediation of the jetty at the Esquimalt graving dock. Some decontamination work has to be done around the jetty. The work began two years ago and will continue over the coming years. The money is earmarked mainly for that project.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

As you know, charges have been laid against SNC-Lavalin. Is there any basis to those charges? What's the value of federal contracts related to that amount? Could you give me some more details on that situation?

[Alex Lakroni]

We have a contract with SNC-Lavalin that is expiring. The contract has been renewed. My colleague Pierre-Marc Mongeau could tell you more about that.

[Pierre-Marc Mongeau]

Thank you for your question.

I don't have details about all the contracts we have with SNC-Lavalin. I didn't prepare for that question.

However, I can tell you that the primary real property management contract—for most of our buildings and some buildings that belong to other departments—is currently with SNC-Lavalin. It will expire in April of this year. We signed a new contract with another business, the real property management firm Brookfield Johnson Controls. That company will take over on April 1. We are currently transitioning between the two organizations. That transition can take months, since hundreds of buildings are involved. That's a huge process, and it is ongoing.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you.

How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?